Alright. Once cake wins, it may not eliminate pumpkin pie immediately. But let me ask you this. What food is it that is customary to eat at birthdays? Thats right! Cake! Who ever heard of a birthday pie? Thats just ridiculous!

bump for great justice! i reactivated my account just to bump you graxxon, and to help with the "save the shaman" movement

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Alright. Once cake wins, it may not eliminate pumpkin pie immediately. But let me ask you this. What food is it that is customary to eat at birthdays? Thats right! Cake! Who ever heard of a birthday pie? Thats just ridiculous!

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http://gallery.digitaldeviation.com/d/1229-1/o+rly__ruserious.JPG

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Alright. Once cake wins, it may not eliminate pumpkin pie immediately. But let me ask you this. What food is it that is customary to eat at birthdays? Thats right! Cake! Who ever heard of a birthday pie? Thats just ridiculous!]

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My birthday's around the corner and I'm gonna prove you wrong!

Also, bump

Brought to you by Pie, Shaman's pastry of choice.

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Orly? Well, so is mine!

Furthermore, http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/news/images/06-02/cake.jpg

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Q u o t e:
Alright. Once cake wins, it may not eliminate pumpkin pie immediately. But let me ask you this. What food is it that is customary to eat at birthdays? Thats right! Cake! Who ever heard of a birthday pie? Thats just ridiculous!

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Birthday Cake? What sort of bass ackwards society do you live in? We all know Bithdays are celebeated with copious quantities of alcohol!

I think we're getting a bit off topic. Having a 46 shaman I play most nights, I feel. I felt like a liability in the group the other night. I would like to see a whole class revamp, there are tons of great ideas I see out there and would love to see them implemented.

p.s. pie wins imho

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p.s. pie wins imho

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Damn straight!

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Birthday Cake? What sort of bass ackwards society do you live in? We all know Bithdays are celebeated with copious quantities of alcohol!

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Well yes, naturally. But I was referring more to the pre-drinking age, in which the ingestion of alcohol before the legal allowed age has been reached is illegal. During that time, the consumption of cake is the norm. After one reaches said age, then its all booze, regardless.

On an aside, since when must one drink alcohol solely on birthdays? I thought it was meant for every meal. o.O

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p.s. pie wins imho

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Her main is a Druid. Her opinion in this matter is null and void.

Hi graxxon, I just thought i would post here for no reason.

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Well yes, naturally. But I was referring more to the pre-drinking age, in which the ingestion of alcohol before the legal allowed age has been reached is illegal. During that time, the consumption of cake is the norm. After one reaches said age, then its all booze, regardless.

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Pie > Cake because the Prime Minister of Canada got pied once. Also, meat pies and quiche (egg pies) are delicious.

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On an aside, since when must one drink alcohol solely on birthdays? I thought it was meant for every meal. o.O

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Copious quantities. If you liver is still working, it hasn't been enough alcohol.

If this pie ever hits the fan there's going to be literal hell to pay. Destroy my pie and suffer the consequences!

Unless this little story is at all amusing then joking is off for the day for me. My brother is in his dorm building at Boston (were from Pittsburgh). He's asking around for something and reaches the front desk.

Brother asks "Do you have a sweeper anywhere?"

"What's a sweeper?" they ask.

Brother replies "You know, you sweep the floors with it."
He makes the motion of using the sweeper.

"Do you mean a vacuum?"

My brother was so ticked off when he realized they didn't understand a sweeper was a vacuum and started ragging on him about his choice of words. I couldn't help but laugh though...just such a stupid situation.

Anyway..../bump

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Copious quantities. If you liver is still working, it hasn't been enough alcohol.

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Mmmm.....Alcohol.......

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This is a repost from the thread Shamanistic Inconsistencies made by Santillan. I repost it so we can continue discussing about those big issues that the shaman class have.

Link to the Original Thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=89541093&sid=1

Link to the Second thread (moved):
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=93159642&sid=1

Link to the Third thread (deleted):
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=94071183&sid=1

Link to the Fourth thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=94161834&sid=1

Link to the Fifth thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=94163788&sid=1

Link to the Sixth thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=97079952&sid=1

Link to the Seventh thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=97561654&sid=1

Link to the Eighth Thread (moved):
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=98895202&sid=1

Here are my responses to Santillan:



I don't entirely agree with this. We do not cast the most (non-Enhancement specs tie with casters), and we are not the most mana inefficient (that title goes to Retribution Paladins). However, we are highly dependent on mana to be effective, and are very mana inefficient (even after talents). The new clearcasting change was a huge improvement for Elemental Shamans, but it only delays the inevitable on long fights. Paladins and Shamans seem to be the only caster classes without a way to recoup mana after running out...

Onto Shamanistic Rage. Enhancement Shamans love it (as do I). However, it needs to be said: it's a bad talent. It causes large amounts of threat (a buff and mana healing), as well as not being particularly potent (those poor, poor two-handed weapons...). Why, then, do Shamans love it so? Because it almost single-handedly solves Enhancement Shaman mana efficiency woes. It's good because Shamans are bad. It is essentially the Shaman equivalent of Endless Rage.



Though it could use better wording, this is an excellent point. Shaman PvP viability was originally maintained by high burst damage. We could beat Mages easily because we could kill them in only slightly longer than it takes them to recover from Earth Shock and Grounding Totem. We were competitive with other classes because, while many of them could disable us, we could race their disable with damage.

However, with the huge stamina buff in TBC, HP has scaled much faster than burst DPS. This mostly effects Enhancement, since Elemental has the advantage of being dangerous from range, so kiting isn't much of a threat. However, Elemental and Restoration Shamans are very weak against interrupts, matched only by Holy Paladins in this regard. We have below-average anti-CC, and no CC of our own to use against our opponents.

The Shaman PvP problem can be summed up as follows: we have average burst, below average anti-CC, no CC, and average utility. At our best we're average.



This is assuming Tseric had a clue when he posted that. His history makes that... unlikely...



Some of our buffs are strong, others are weak. Grace of the Air, Windfury, Wrath of Air, Strength of Earth are our strong buffs. Poison Cleansing, Disease Cleansing, and Grounding for utility. Everything else is mediocre to nigh-useless (Tremor is bad ability design, and Fire Totems are both weak, hard to control, and unreliable, Tranquil Air hits that tank in 5 mans, and has to compete with our strongest buff slot).

The biggest issue is that the buffs are group only. While a Paladin has as many buffs as an Elemental or Enhancement Shaman (1 Earth, 1 Air, and UR/ToW vs. 1 Blessing, 1 Aura, and 1 Judgement), Blessings can be tailored, but more importantly, a single Paladin gives those buffs to the entire raid. In a 25 man raid, Mark of the Wild alone gets more buff counts than a single Shaman. 1 Shaman in every group would give less buffs than 2 Paladins in the whole raid.

The second biggest issue is that, for a buffing class, we don't have the option to pick the best buff for each class. We can't give casters Wrath of Air, Warriors Windfury, and everyone else Grace of the Air. We choose one, and everyone's stuck with it. Auras and Judgements have to deal with this, as do classes with only one buff, but for a purported "support" class, we do it poorly.



Auras do as well, but it is a good point. Other abilities persist through death, why shouldn't Totems? Not a serious issue, though.



This is a very good point. Hybrids should be effective at their spec. All classes, regardless of level, gear, or talent spec, get the same amount of time to perform actions. Hybrids need to be effective at their given spec, since it's the only way they can use their time effectively. Only 3 Classes can heal and DPS at the same time: Warlocks (themselves only), Feral Druids (Improved Leader of the Pack), and Shadow Priests. Among those 3, only Shadow Priests do it effectively enough for it to be considered. Hybrids perform their off-specs poorly (especially if they spec'd melee!), if they aren't good at their spec, they're worthless. Hybrids give up powerful abilities (like Dragon's Breath, Frost Nova, Fear, Death Coil, Ice Trap, Cloak of Shadows, Stunlock, etc...) in order to obtain flexibility.

The only way to make hybrids strictly worse than pure classes yet still balanced is to give them one slightly larger than average tree that combines their roles, and give them gear that's way over the level limit but has stats that don't synch up (like Spell Damage and Ap). This way they'd be fairly powerful at all their hybrid roles, but worse than a pure class. It also kills the current 3 tree system, and thus Blizzard will never implement it.



We are one of the easiest classes to CC (there are several), and the second comment is a reference to Totems having 5 HP and small AoE. No other class in the game finds it's defining feature to be that easy to handle. One-shotting our buffs, or simply kiting (Frost Mages make Enhancement Shamans cry so very much). Totems are very bad Auras.



This is a rehash of earlier points. I don't agree with the comments regarding Paladins; I think a Counterspelled Paladin is just as screwed as a Counterspelled Shaman.



Not a rehash, but I've brought this up myself earlier...

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Heh. I think Celyssa did more than just bump. : P

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Heh. I think Celyssa did more than just bump. : P

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Who me?