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  • 0. From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver. 6.0   04/19/2007 10:30:09 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
Dear World of Warcraft Developers:

First, we would like to congratulate you on doing an amazing job overall in regards to designing, developing, marketing, and maintaining World of Warcraft (WoW). No MMO in the history of the genre has ever been able to claim as many paying subscriptions as WoW and that’s something to be proud of, congratulations.

As you guys are clearly aware, WoW has had, and continues to have some problems and we are sure that you guys are doing everything in your power to handle them in a timely and efficient matter. However, we Retribution Paladins feel as though you are neglecting to address an issue with the Paladin class, specifically, the Retribution tree. We believe that something is, well, out of whack when the “melee oriented hybrid” class is more desired to play a healing role than the games designated healing class (Priests) and said designated healing class is more desired to play an offensive role than the games “melee oriented hybrid” class (Paladins).

We believe that the Retribution tree does not function in a fashion that makes it desirable in end game PvE or PvP. Our belief is reflected in the actions of other players. For example, roughly three weeks ago, someone gathered and presented data regarding the top 5 v 5 arena teams across all battle groups. There were 78 Paladins represented in those teams, out of 78 Paladins, 77 were Holy, 1 was Protection and yes, 0 was Retribution.

Aside from not being useful in end game Arena PvP, Retribution Paladins have long been known to be the least desired spec in end game PvE. We are bringing the following thread to your attention; in it, the original poster solicited replies from guild/raid leaders regarding their views on Retribution Paladins and raids. We understand that the people that responded to the thread do not represent the entire community. However, they do represent a random sample, and from that random sample, an inference regarding the views of the entire population can be drawn. Here is the thread:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86644720&sid=1&pageNo=1

Also, it should be pointed out that discrimination against Retribution Paladins in end game PvE doesn’t start at the raid level, it is in full swing at the Heroic 5 Man level. Many people make the argument that Retribution Paladins neither do enough DPS nor bring enough utility to be picked up for end game PvP or PvE.

We Retribution Paladins are asking you, Blizzard developers, to please take a look at the Retribution tree and make changes that will increase the desirability of the spec in end game PvP and PvE. We are not explicitly or implicitly asking for “more DPS” or “more utility,” what we are asking for is “a solution” whether that is more DPS, more utility, a combination of both, or something completely different. We just want the spec fixed.

Thanks for reading.

Below, you will find the signatures of all interested Retribution Paladins.

Tytanis



CHECK OUT THE SUGGESTION FORUMS VERSION:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=94202689&sid=1

First thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=89380343&sid=1

Second thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=89401661&sid=1

Third thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=93031094&sid=1

Fourth thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=93959505&sid=1

Fifth thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=94202687&sid=1
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  • Dragonmaw
  • 1. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 10:42:53 AM PDT
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I jus wanna say good luck to the pallys and shammys moving on with their incoming nerfs. I'm so sick of bliz Devs screwing around with good existing contents of the class, ripping it apart and calling it a HOTFIX. They've lost their brains.
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  • Dalvengyr
  • 2. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 10:52:01 AM PDT
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asdf
Blizzard Entertainment
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Kalgan
Blizzard Poster
  • 3. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 10:55:59 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:



CHECK OUT THE SUGGESTION FORUMS VERSION:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=94202689&sid=1

First thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=89380343&sid=1

Second thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=89401661&sid=1

Third thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=93031094&sid=1

Fourth thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=93959505&sid=1

Fifth thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=94202687&sid=1


First, thank you for the suggestions. There are a lot of valid points made in the threads.

However, while I don't disagree that there aren't many highly rated ret pallies, it's worth pointing out that there also aren't many highly rated prot warriors, destro locks, balance druids, survival hunters, enhancement shamans, etc.

While trying to get each spec to be arena viable in the different formats is a noble goal, the reality is that it isn't an immediate goal for every spec to be optimized for every aspect of the game (arenas, battlegrounds, solo-ing, raiding, heroics, etc).

In the case of arenas, it seems to me that getting each class reasonably represented in highly rated teams is a more important goal, and unfortunately the paladin class happens to be somewhat grossly over-represented in this regard.

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  • 5. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 10:58:08 AM PDT
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WTF? When I came into this thread it was tagged blue but I didn't see Kalgan's post at all.

Hi Kalgan. Please post something addressing some Paladin concerns if you're sticking around.

[ Post edited by Charsi ]

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  • 6. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 10:58:54 AM PDT
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I'm a holy pally, so it doesn't really affect me, but ret isn't viable anywhere. Is there a fix for that?
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  • 7. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 10:58:57 AM PDT
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HOLY CRAP :O

"Think of the Ret paladin as the single biggest geek in high school. He may be able to do amazing things people dont expect, but no chick will ever come close to him"

PROC = Paladins Rely On Chance
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  • 8. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 10:59:00 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:


First, thank you for the suggestions. There are a lot of valid points made in the threads.

However, while I don't disagree that there aren't many highly rated ret pallies, it's worth pointing out that there also aren't many highly rated prot warriors, destro locks, balance druids, survival hunters, enhancement shamans, etc.

While trying to get each spec to be arena viable in the different formats is a noble goal, the reality is that it isn't an immediate goal for every spec to be optimized for every aspect of the game (arenas, battlegrounds, solo-ing, raiding, heroics, etc).

In the case of arenas, it seems to me that getting each class reasonably represented in highly rated teams is a more important goal, and unfortunately the paladin class happens to be somewhat grossly over-represented in this regard.




I'm going to refer you to http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=96076200&sid=1 while you might still be reading!

Angry Public Relations and Judge Magister.
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  • Mannoroth
  • 9. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 10:59:12 AM PDT
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Yeo
  • Ursin
  • 10. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 10:59:40 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:


First, thank you for the suggestions. There are a lot of valid points made in the threads.

However, while I don't disagree that there aren't many highly rated ret pallies, it's worth pointing out that there also aren't many highly rated prot warriors, destro locks, balance druids, survival hunters, enhancement shamans, etc.

While trying to get each spec to be arena viable in the different formats is a noble goal, the reality is that it isn't an immediate goal for every spec to be optimized for every aspect of the game (arenas, battlegrounds, solo-ing, raiding, heroics, etc).

In the case of arenas, it seems to me that getting each class reasonably represented in highly rated teams is a more important goal, and unfortunately the paladin class happens to be somewhat grossly over-represented in this regard.




What is the role of Retribution then if it isn't for PvE and now PvP since you acknowledge that Retribution isn't for PvP.
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  • Twisting Nether
  • 12. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 11:00:13 AM PDT
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Thanks for stopping by, Kalgan.

[ Post edited by Fordineaux ]


Beg for mercy, Snowman!
-Built Ford Tough-
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  • Aegwynn
  • 13. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 11:00:38 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:


First, thank you for the suggestions. There are a lot of valid points made in the threads.

However, while I don't disagree that there aren't many highly rated ret pallies, it's worth pointing out that there also aren't many highly rated prot warriors, destro locks, balance druids, survival hunters, enhancement shamans, etc.

While trying to get each spec to be arena viable in the different formats is a noble goal, the reality is that it isn't an immediate goal for every spec to be optimized for every aspect of the game (arenas, battlegrounds, solo-ing, raiding, heroics, etc).

In the case of arenas, it seems to me that getting each class reasonably represented in highly rated teams is a more important goal, and unfortunately the paladin class happens to be somewhat grossly over-represented in this regard.






QQ'rs consider yourself owned by blue.













DAMMIT, server busy.


DAMMIT, again.
seriously, again? what's wrong with this server?


Q u o t e:
I R RET, I NO HEAL, I DEE PEE ESS! ::froths at the mouth:: GIV CS TEH BUFFZ!!!!!1!!!1!!1SHIFT+ONE111ELEVENTYONE!


Mersynary- Belfadin
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  • 14. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 11:01:10 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:


First, thank you for the suggestions. There are a lot of valid points made in the threads.

However, while I don't disagree that there aren't many highly rated ret pallies, it's worth pointing out that there also aren't many highly rated prot warriors, destro locks, balance druids, survival hunters, enhancement shamans, etc.

While trying to get each spec to be arena viable in the different formats is a noble goal, the reality is that it isn't an immediate goal for every spec to be optimized for every aspect of the game (arenas, battlegrounds, solo-ing, raiding, heroics, etc).

In the case of arenas, it seems to me that getting each class reasonably represented in highly rated teams is a more important goal, and unfortunately the paladin class happens to be somewhat grossly over-represented in this regard.




Then what is our pvp damage spec or are we never suposed to damage in pvp?

"Think of the Ret paladin as the single biggest geek in high school. He may be able to do amazing things people dont expect, but no chick will ever come close to him"

PROC = Paladins Rely On Chance
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  • Lightbringer
  • 16. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 11:01:41 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:


First, thank you for the suggestions. There are a lot of valid points made in the threads.

However, while I don't disagree that there aren't many highly rated ret pallies, it's worth pointing out that there also aren't many highly rated prot warriors, destro locks, balance druids, survival hunters, enhancement shamans, etc.

While trying to get each spec to be arena viable in the different formats is a noble goal, the reality is that it isn't an immediate goal for every spec to be optimized for every aspect of the game (arenas, battlegrounds, solo-ing, raiding, heroics, etc).

In the case of arenas, it seems to me that getting each class reasonably represented in highly rated teams is a more important goal, and unfortunately the paladin class happens to be somewhat grossly over-represented in this regard.




Kalgan, I personally understand the situation here.
My concern however, is more around a PVE perspective.
Retribution has the potential to bring DPS numbers and contribution to groups and raids. And yet, we are limited by our threat generation and unseen contribution.

My question to you is, are there any plans to improve Retribution in a PVE perspective?
I'm not asking ground breaking improvements, just minor, mostly threat related improvements.

[ Post edited by Option ]


♡ Rouges are overpowdered.
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  • 17. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 11:02:19 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:


What is the role of Retribution then if it isn't for PvE and now PvP since you acknowledge that Retribution isn't for PvP.
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  • 18. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 11:02:44 AM PDT
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There aren't many highly ranked survival hunters cause no one in their right mind currently specs that way as nothing above 16 points is remotely necessary to pvp effectively. hawkeye, humanoid slaying, raptor strike, entrapment, hitpoints, and deterrence, all before 20 points.
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  • Lightning's Blade
  • 19. Re: From Ret Paladins to WoW Developers ver.    04/19/2007 11:03:10 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:


While trying to get each spec to be arena viable in the different formats is a noble goal, the reality is that it isn't an immediate goal for every spec to be optimized for every aspect of the game (arenas, battlegrounds, solo-ing, raiding, heroics, etc).





Does this mean that ret is only intended to be used as a tree for soloing? Is that why it doesnt seem to be a high priority to bring it in line with other specs in terms of group usefulness?

PS: dont buff ret by just nerfing holy =/

[ Post edited by Werdner ]


http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/team-info.xml?b=Vindication&ts=5&t=Clan+HeX&select=Clan+HeX&fl=1
#1 5v5 Clan Hex - Vindication
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