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Q u o t e:



But as far as WoW goes, content, at least end-game, should continue to focus on situations where you need at least 5 people to succeed.

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I disagree. I enjoy having characters who exist in a MMO setting: however I like to have the option of choosing whether I will do some endgame solo quests, or group quests. Being forced to group and raid with 4 or more is not an option I like to feel beholden to.

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Q u o t e:


Unless you're an Orc IRL, you are role playing.

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Yes, that's what the roleplaying always meant to me. The simple fact you are logging in to play a night elf, orc or whatever.

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Q u o t e:
I want more 5 man content, that I can find a PuG for.

Anything more than that requires that first I need to be in a raiding guild, then I need to farm consumables, then I need to spend time and commitment blah blah.

5 man content -- easy to find PuGs for, exciting, nice way to make new friends (Being in a raiding guild =/= making new friends. Being in a raiding guild = having an elitist "I won't PuG outside my guild" attitude), and feel like you have done something in a short while.

That's what I do now. I log in, join the LFG channel and go do some BGs after my dailies are done. Every time someone says "LFM DPS/CC" I join the group , and 9 times out of 10, by experience, I can honestly say I have made 4 new friends that day that I can call on some other time when I want help.

damn friend's list .. why is it restricted to a certain number?

EDIT: I agree with makleod.

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I'm in a raiding guild, and I made a number of friends within it AND I do do pugs when the mood hits me. So shut up please. You sound more elitist in this comment than almost any raider I've ever talked to.

Don't know if it's been answered yet, but yes.

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Q u o t e:
Topic. Wondering if the new expansion will throw a bone at soloists somehow.

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I am an extremely antisocial person on WoW, instances make me cringe because I feel uncomfortable working with other people.

But I have to say I am more than satisfied with the solo content available. Ever played FFX!?

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Q u o t e:


Well, I think you're taking the world out of context by saying this, and putting too much stock into a literal interpretation of the game.

Really it's not unlike the RTS: in no Warcraft battle I have ever seen were there actual 'armies' involved. Not unless a handful of footmen, knights, gyrocopters, mortar teams, priests, sorcerors and one Hero counts as an army. The units are representative of a huge force taking the field, not merely a skirmish involving three-score units.

The idea that is implied by WoW is that by the time the final 25 heros make the push into Illidan's inner sanctum, the army behind them has already dismantled most of his defenses. All of the setbacks caused by the thousands of players disrupting his plans in Shadowmoon Valley, disrupting things in Tempest Keep, disrupting things in Coilfang have left him with nothing but this last, desperate stand in Black Temple.

And these aren't footman-grade heros; each is an Arthas, a Jaina, a Muradin Bronzebeard.

And again, this isn't supported by a literal interpretation of the game, but it is for game design reasons, not for continuity, that player power is significantly less than high-end PCs. We are meant to be the pinnacle of what the Horde and Alliance have to offer.

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A response to my post that didn't involve a personal attack? I shall have to respond with a well thought out rebuttal!


--- In the WC games, its true, you would, in general, only field armies of 50-60 units tops. However, each campaign was considered concurrent; while you were fighting at location A, locations B-Z were still experiencing conflicts, but you weren't present for them. So although you only saw, say 50 units at once, tens of thousands, if not more, were actually in existance.

One can say that's the same as WoW, as there is a force in Stormwind, Durotar, and every single town, but there is no concurrency here; while in theory by lore they are all trying to accomplish their personal objectives, they seem happy enough to procrastinate on them until the very last second. Or, stated another way, the exact same army (your guild, essentially) is stopping every single threat faced by anyone, anywhere, ever. So there aren't really lots of armies in lots of conflicts happening, there is 1 conflict, which upon completion is then another conflict, etc. No 10's of thousands of units, just 25 really fast ones.



--- You say that there is an army following behind the 25-man group, who is acting as a spearhead. I would be able to buy that, if not for the fact that... they don't. If there were, then as you progress through an instance, you should be able to turn around, and if you run back to the start, you eventually run into your rear-guard force. But there is none; in fact, any other force is so dependant on you, that they don't even try and prevent reinforcements from coming to stop you (AKA "respawns").

Further, that assumes that they handle the forces that your 25man hasn't. But if you do a "full clear" of any dungeon, clearing any and all wings (for whatever reason), then you and your 25 people have, in fact, handled every single force. Again, this makes the concept of "everyone else in the world" redundant. Even 25 people should not have that kind of power; for "entire worlds" to be in jeopardy, it should take at a minimum an actual % of said world's population, and even then, if it's a small %, also some form of superior technology or (this being a fantasy MMO, after all) magical advantage.

Point here is, 25 is far too small for epic world-dominance, and the OP is asking how can we make that number even smaller. Like, 1.




--- I have to categorically disagree with the statement that each of us is a Hero character of Jaina / Arthas proportions. If we were all even remotely as ability-laden as those people, than those people wouldn't have their standing as "the most powerful and influential people around".


Actually, to both illustrate my point and add some humor, check this work out:
http://meghanohara.org/wordpress/2007/08/13/in-the-future/
Specifically, I liked the "pet" in the 2nd to last frame.

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Q u o t e:
4 months into level 70 and I still have some level 70 group quests to do simply because they're group and so few others have them. I just wish Blizzard wouldn't make it so 95% of all quest lines in the max level areas didn't need a group.

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29 out of 191 quests in SMV are group
22 out of 155 quests in Netherstorm are group

15%?

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Q u o t e:


Raiding guilds can get to Hyjal/BT on 4 hours a night, 3 nights a week. I'm sure that, even as a casual, you play this game more than 12 hours a week. So your point about a "huge time commitment" is moot. Secondly, you have 15 end-game 5-mans to participate in (and that's only counting heroics) and will soon have 2 "casual" raid environments. All this in comparrison to 4 end-game raids. Yeah. Poor casuals. You guys really got the short end of the stick. There's 4 whole places in the game you can't see, and it's generally because you're too lazy to get there and/or write it off as a loss before you ever try. Please. Casuals have the most pathetic excuses in existance.

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Because who WOULDN'T want to spend 5+ hours grouped with THIS person?

You're a warrior, you can't solo.

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Q u o t e:
Topic. Wondering if the new expansion will throw a bone at soloists somehow.

(To the people about to post what the second M in MMORPG stand for: you're neither clever nor cool.)

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I'd say making the quest line for becoming a Death Knight not having you to kill any raid bosses says enough.

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Q u o t e:


I'd say making the quest line for becoming a Death Knight not having you to kill any raid bosses says enough.

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I agree. I want the quest line to be completely accessible to a solo player. I like people okay, I don't mind joining up with them, but I'd like the option of doing it on my own. To be honest, very few people are as good as I am at what I do and I'm a perfectionist...I like things done my way because I like things done the right way.

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Q u o t e:
I agree. I want the quest line to be completely accessible to a solo player. I like people okay, I don't mind joining up with them, but I'd like the option of doing it on my own. To be honest, very few people are as good as I am at what I do and I'm a perfectionist...I like things done my way because I like things done the wrong way.

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That's why we let you do 'em.

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Q u o t e:


Because who WOULDN'T want to spend 5+ hours grouped with THIS person?

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He's probably a good player.
I would like to spend time in instances/raids with good players.

I really don't know why some people are so resistant to the idea of having meaningful and rewarding solo content. It is true that MMORPG does say multiplayer, but that is as misnomer imo just as the class descriptions are on the website (like they forgot in the warlock description that this is the most pwning class around and anyone wishing to be op'ed should play.) An MMORPG should be thought of more as a game in which there are so many more things to do than a solo game or first person shooter. Fishing, banking, playing the auction farming, farming ore/plants, rep grind, pvp which would make any non-casual players eyes bleed are the solo content that I can think of.

But why can't bliz expand on this, some single player rpg have puzzles and riddles while they may be limited due to walkthroughs but creating some sort of dynamic solo content should be important to bliz rather than just the prestige of have pimp raid epics. I think the netherwing rep style would be best suited for solo content style. I really think that having the ablility to play different styles should be the defining feature of MMORPGs not just the 'raid or die' mentality. The MMORPG is a constantly changing and evolving beast that should allow designers to have such a much more diverse gaming experience than in a console or single player pc game that it boggles my mine why then are so stuck on the raiding for the sucess and growth of the character.

I'd bank on bliz not having anything decent or fun to do outside of their raids, never been an interest to them.


And to all the stupid forum troll I'll try to take your job away

mmmm, you mispelled ****** l2typeNub
I stopped reading at the crack about warlocks
pickles? I like them too
L2RaidMore it's easy
Go back to playing halo
Wall of text crits you for 19424 damage, you die
You armor suffers a 10% durability loss

The entire game is soloable from level 1 to level 70. QQ more.

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Q u o t e:


That's why we let you do 'em.

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:.(

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Q u o t e:
He's probably a good player.
I would like to spend time in instances/raids with good players.

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Sarcastic, smug, & elitist does not, for me, equal 'good player.' It does, however, add up to a person to avoid, whether they manipulate their online characters effecitvely or not.



I'm personally fine with the solo content as it is now, so no complaints here.

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Q u o t e:


Raiding guilds can get to Hyjal/BT on 4 hours a night, 3 nights a week. I'm sure that, even as a casual, you play this game more than 12 hours a week. So your point about a "huge time commitment" is moot. Secondly, you have 15 end-game 5-mans to participate in (and that's only counting heroics) and will soon have 2 "casual" raid environments. All this in comparrison to 4 end-game raids. Yeah. Poor casuals. You guys really got the short end of the stick. There's 4 whole places in the game you can't see, and it's generally because you're too lazy to get there and/or write it off as a loss before you ever try. Please. Casuals have the most pathetic excuses in existance.

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ROFLMAO a raiding guild would take forever to get into Hyjal/BT if they only raided 3 nights a week. Just becuase 1 exceptional guild managed to pull it off doesnt make your statement the norm. So her comment about a "huge time commitment" is valid. Just becuase you choose not to accept it doesnt make it any less true. I raid, and as well i would love to see more smaller man content being developed. Zul'aman is a step in the right direction, and i feel more should be made like that instead of pumping out more 25man content in the future.

If blizzard put a tenth of the effort into making new and exciting bg's, and/or group quests throughout the world as they do into 25 man raids, i think much of the complaints would lessen. and please stop with the 15 new 5man heroic crap. The same instances that where experienced as you lvld up to 70 in a heroic version isnt anything new. Its the same crap, the mobs just hit harder with a few bosses here and there with a new ability. A new 5man to be released along with every 25 man would make many casuals happy, becuase blizzard is producing content for them as well as raiders.


ps. stop with the lazy casual argument, it really is just as pathetic.