I've noticed there is a lot of people who make... very interesting assumptions about various class abilities, and it hurts the overall argument. Most of my examples (if not all) will be about Warlocks and Mages, since I'm currently building a Mage and have spent most of my time recently looking at their forums.

A common compliant of Mages is that Warlocks have an equivalent level of DPS, and this is not supposed to be so. Yet, a Warlock specialized in the Destruction Tree is (quite literally) a Mage by definition. The differences between the two class (various utility spells being the exception) are mitigated by the specialization. Pets and Dots are relatively weak and insignificant down that tree, and become a side-line to our actual damage. Instead a Warlock becomes a Direct-Damage dealer using, roughly, the exact same spells as a Mage under a different name. In the light, why is it so unreasonable to complete on the damage meters with a Warlock?

Another problem is the tools used to measure ones effectiveness. Most people use damage meters to judge they're overall capabilities yet completely refuse to acknowledge the weaknesses of those. For example, comparing Warlocks and Mage damage, a good Warlock with the opportunity to use Seed of Corruption will be so far up the scale on damage meters that every other player will seem insignificant. Yet in order to get that damage they must be in a very specific situation with a good group.

Likewise if you engage several targets which are strong enough to support the full timer of a Affliction Warlocks DoT spells then a Warlock will rise above others in the damage meters simply for they're ability to pump out consistent damage over multiple targets (when properly supported).

Which is actually part of another compliant where, for some reason, much of the Mage community on the forums don't seem to realize that a Warlock's DoT spells (even under the power of an Affliction Warlock) do roughly the same damage as four or five fireballs. The problem is that those DoT must finish their run in order to get that damage, and a Mage can get off four Direct Damage spells in the amount of time it takes a Warlock to actually cast the DoTs, leaving the remaining 15-20 seconds of DoT duration for the Mage to get extra damage over a Warlock.

Perhaps the most insane compliant I've seen, from any class directed towards Warlocks, is the claim of higher Hit Points. Do these people not realize that we sacrifice Intellect for Stamina? Most Warlocks can do this because we can turn Stamina into Mana, and we do not benefit too much from the extra critical strike chance gained from Intellect. A Mage, or any class, is more than able to sacrifice another primary attribute for Stamina and achieve results just as a Warlock does.

To show other examples, look at the Druid community. Druids are constantly complaining that they do not have the utility of their parent classes. Which is true, yet they somehow ignore their own utility in that computation, such as Mark of the Wild, healing capability (even if not spec'd for it a Druid can still off-heal), in-combat ressurection, and so on...

There are numerous other common complaints among all the classes. People need to apply some logical thought behind their arguments and consider the nature of just what they're arguing about. It doesn't do someone any good to complain about a topic if there is a counter-balance to their argument already in the game.

Plus, Baby Beholders.

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Q u o t e:


In the coming weeks we hope as many people can jump on the PTRs as possible. We realize space is limited, but anyone can post on the test realm forum to discuss topics. This is another opportunity to involve yourself in the development process of an always-growing game.

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The new feedback add-on in game has also been a welcome chance to give feedback.

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Q u o t e:


I think this point can be overlooked sometimes.

I'd like to reiterate an important aspect of the public test realm (PTR), now that it is up and running again. We realize the patch notes are rather large and it is a lot of material to go over. Naturally, many of you have questions and concerns about what is presented in the notes. We will try to address what we can, where we can, but at the same time it always helps to keep in mind that things are subject to change. The PTRs are a great way for us to glimpse certain aspects of game play in a controlled space. While the testing phase doesn't reflect live realm behavior exactly, there is much that we can learn from it.

A part of this involves clear feedback from the community. Anyone can say whether they like something or not, but it is far more beneficial to us for players to provide details and specific points to illustrate their concerns. Providing specific posting on a particular issue gives the developers specific points to investigate and measure, so they can decide what specific changes can or should be made, rather than just offering a simple opinion on the matter.

In the coming weeks we hope as many people can jump on the PTRs as possible. We realize space is limited, but anyone can post on the test realm forum to discuss topics. This is another opportunity to involve yourself in the development process of an always-growing game. The best use of this opportunity is posting constructive feedback on how the game stands, which allows us take that information and use it in the decision-making process.

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Get them to change the Warrior PvP trinket back to removing snares, the whole removing poly thing isn't nearly as important. QQ :(

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Q u o t e:


I think this point can be overlooked sometimes.

I'd like to reiterate an important aspect of the public test realm (PTR), now that it is up and running again. We realize the patch notes are rather large and it is a lot of material to go over. Naturally, many of you have questions and concerns about what is presented in the notes. We will try to address what we can, where we can, but at the same time it always helps to keep in mind that things are subject to change. The PTRs are a great way for us to glimpse certain aspects of game play in a controlled space. While the testing phase doesn't reflect live realm behavior exactly, there is much that we can learn from it.

A part of this involves clear feedback from the community. Anyone can say whether they like something or not, but it is far more beneficial to us for players to provide details and specific points to illustrate their concerns. Providing specific posting on a particular issue gives the developers specific points to investigate and measure, so they can decide what specific changes can or should be made, rather than just offering a simple opinion on the matter.

In the coming weeks we hope as many people can jump on the PTRs as possible. We realize space is limited, but anyone can post on the test realm forum to discuss topics. This is another opportunity to involve yourself in the development process of an always-growing game. The best use of this opportunity is posting constructive feedback on how the game stands, which allows us take that information and use it in the decision-making process.

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thanks for bringing happiness to your paying customers.

Why can't the devs figure out how to balance group pvp without hurting solo viability. It's not that hard; all it takes is a little creativity.

Tseric, please let the Dev's know that I cheerily acknowledge that they are entitled to make dev descisions, but, due to the illumination nerf, I have been forced to lay a thousand year curse on their families.

I hope they like spider eggs.


<3

Lu.

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Q u o t e:


I think this point can be overlooked sometimes.

I'd like to reiterate an important aspect of the public test realm (PTR), now that it is up and running again. We realize the patch notes are rather large and it is a lot of material to go over. Naturally, many of you have questions and concerns about what is presented in the notes. We will try to address what we can, where we can, but at the same time it always helps to keep in mind that things are subject to change. The PTRs are a great way for us to glimpse certain aspects of game play in a controlled space. While the testing phase doesn't reflect live realm behavior exactly, there is much that we can learn from it.

A part of this involves clear feedback from the community. Anyone can say whether they like something or not, but it is far more beneficial to us for players to provide details and specific points to illustrate their concerns. Providing specific posting on a particular issue gives the developers specific points to investigate and measure, so they can decide what specific changes can or should be made, rather than just offering a simple opinion on the matter.

In the coming weeks we hope as many people can jump on the PTRs as possible. We realize space is limited, but anyone can post on the test realm forum to discuss topics. This is another opportunity to involve yourself in the development process of an always-growing game. The best use of this opportunity is posting constructive feedback on how the game stands, which allows us take that information and use it in the decision-making process.

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You're in over your head, champ.

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Q u o t e:


In the coming weeks we hope as many people can jump on the PTRs as possible. We realize space is limited, but anyone can post on the test realm forum to discuss topics. This is another opportunity to involve yourself in the development process of an always-growing game. The best use of this opportunity is posting constructive feedback on how the game stands, which allows us take that information and use it in the decision-making process.

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Going to go off topic a little bit:

Speaking of test realms, what happened to being able to play premade characters? It still helps with testing and it also gives people a better chance to get a feel for a class that they may decide to level in the future.

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Q u o t e:
A part of this involves clear feedback from the community. Anyone can say whether they like something or not, but it is far more beneficial to us for players to provide details and specific points to illustrate their concerns. Providing specific posting on a particular issue gives the developers specific points to investigate and measure, so they can decide what specific changes can or should be made, rather than just offering a simple opinion on the matter.

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Pardon some of us for simply not believing that anymore.

We've been giving clear feedback for ages. It's ignored for nerfs. When the planets align and one of you comes into the Shaman forum to ask for "feedback", then follow it up with a nebulous "It's being looked at" we all know now what that precisely means. We were told the devs were concerned with our mana efficiency. And we got our mana nerfed for it.

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Q u o t e:
In the coming weeks we hope as many people can jump on the PTRs as possible. We realize space is limited, but anyone can post on the test realm forum to discuss topics. This is another opportunity to involve yourself in the development process of an always-growing game. The best use of this opportunity is posting constructive feedback on how the game stands, which allows us take that information and use it in the decision-making process.

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Again, you guys just are not believable on this and I am not sorry for sayin' it.

Counterpoint being that, in the grand history of these forums, reasonable arguments appear to accomplish very little and kicking and screaming in 25 page long threads appears to actually make things happen. Might not be the case, but it sure seems that way.

- Croup

Tseric,

The change to DW/Enrage is unwarrented. DW/Enrage is the only form of burst damage that we have and now it's nerfed. Why do other classes still have all their forms of stacking self buffing abilities/talents and the only respectable stacking buffs that we have are neutered?

This can't go through in 2.1. Tell this to the devs.

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Q u o t e:


A common compliant of Mages is that Warlocks have an equivalent level of DPS, and this is not supposed to be so. Yet, a Warlock specialized in the Destruction Tree is (quite literally) a Mage by definition. The differences between the two class (various utility spells being the exception) are mitigated by the specialization. Pets and Dots are relatively weak and insignificant down that tree, and become a side-line to our actual damage. Instead a Warlock becomes a Direct-Damage dealer using, roughly, the exact same spells as a Mage under a different name. In the light, why is it so unreasonable to complete on the damage meters with a Warlock?

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Wow that's so fair...

I'll hold my breath for a Affliction/Demo tree?

How about blizzard just balance the classes like they claim to be. I hope this next patch is a step in that direction. I understand other classes are worse off than mages are, that does not mean that mages don't have some legitimate concerns though.

Yeah, no.

Well i'd like to test stuff on the PTR but that ain't happing since i can't transfer my char to start with. WHy? Becuase your transfer service sucks.