World of Warcraft

1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 . 10 . 11 . 12 . 13 . 14 . 15 . 16 . 17 . 18
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 1. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 12:26:46 PM PDT
quote reply
Now that we know what we want and why, let's take a look at what we have available.

Following is a breakdown of most of what we have available to us in a pre-raid situation. (Please feel free to let me know of anything you think I've missed here.)

I'm going to list a couple mid-60's options, as well as note what is good for 5 mans.
>R< will denote a raid-tanking oriented item, while >5< will denote what is more than functional in 5-mans.

Head:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28560 – Exorcist's Lamellar Helm (l66, Shard turnin)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29312 – Cover of Righteous Fury (l67 Q. Reward)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30016 – X-52 Technician's Helm (l69 Q. Reward
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28285 – Helm of the Righteous (l70, drops off last boss of Mechanar)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23536 - Oathkeeper's Helm (l70, crafted)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27520 – Greathelm of the Unbreakable (l70, first boss of Shattered Halls)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28180 - Myrmidon's Headdress (l70, Steamvault Quest)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23519 – Felsteel Helm (l70 crafted)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23535 - Helm of the Stalwart Defender (l70 crafted)
---2.1----
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32083 - Faceguard of Determination
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32473 - Tankatronic Goggles

I believe the Stalwart Defender to be the best raid tanking piece, and the Oathkeeper's best for 5-mans. Felsteel Helm is just a cut under Stalwart, and still very, very good for raids. Myrmidon's Headdress and the Greathelm are pretty comparable if you can't get either crafted helm, with Myrmidon's winning out slightly if you can get a good meta gem. Helm of the Righteous is an excellent 5-man piece until you can get Oathkeeper's made.

2.1 Update: The new Engineering helm (Tankatronic Goggles) are amazing. They are tied for the best possible pre-raid helm you can get, and I fully endorse them with personal experience. :) The other new and on-par with Tankatronic Goggles is the Faceguard of Determination, from badge turn-ins. If you can afford to get this after getting your Libram, it's a very worthwhile investment for non-engineers.

Neck:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29336 – Mark of the Ravenguard (l69 quest)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27792 – Steam-hinge Chain of Valor (l70, second boss of Steamvault)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29173 – Strength of the Untamed (l70, CE rep)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27871 - Maladaar's Blessed Chaplet (Heroic Auch. Crypts)

Strength of the Untamed/Maladaar's are nearly identical and are best for pure avoidance, but Steam-hinge's block value is very valuable in a 5-man.



Shoulders:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24463 – Pauldrons of Brute Force (l63, last boss of Underbog)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30291 – Nexus-Guard's Pauldrons (l69 quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25967 – Warchief's Mantle (l66, Old Hillsbrad Quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27803 – Shoulderguards of the Bold (l70, last boss of Shadow Labyrinth)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30381 - Kaylaan's Spaulders (l70 quest)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27739 – Spaulders of the Righteous (l70, second to last boss of Botanica)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27847 - Fanblade Pauldrons (l70, heroic Auchenai Crypts)

I believe the Spaulders of the Righteous is the best in 5 man situations (possibly raids too, if you want the 2 piece) but the Fanblade Pauldrons offer a bit more mitigation.

Back:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24379 – Bogstrok Scale Cloak (l62 Slave Pens)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27988 – Burnoose of Shifting Ages (l70, first boss of Black Morass)
>5R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27804 – Devilshark Cape (l70, last boss of Steamvault)

Chest:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28055 – Gilded Crimson Chestplate (l60 quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30074 - Heavy Earthforged Breastplate (l65 Armorsmithing)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25819 - Breastplate of the Warbringer (l68 quest)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28203 – Breastplate of the Righteous (l70, last boss of Steamvault)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28262 – Jade-Skull Breastplate (l70, second 'real' boss of Mechanar)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29127 – Vindicator's Hauberk (l70, Aldor Rep)

IMO, Breastplate of the Righteous is best for 5 mans, while Jade-Skull is best for getting you to 102.4% as quickly as possible. Once you're there, the Vindicator's Hauberk is better for pure avoidance.

Wrists:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30225 – Junior Technician 3rd Grade Bracers (l68 quest)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30400 – Thadell's Bracers (l68 quest)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29252 - Bracers of Dignity (l70, Heroic Mana Tombs)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28167 – Sha'tari Wrought Armguards (l72 Shadow Lab quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27459 – Vambraces of Daring (l70, heroic Ramparts last boss)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23538 – Bracers of the Green Fortress (l70 crafted)

I'd say the Green Fortress ones are best for raid tanking, and Bracers of Dignity for 5 mans. There aren't a lot of other wrist options for spelldamage, so you can wear mitigation here and squeeze threat out of other slots.

Hands:
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30967 – The Hands of Fate (l70 Q. Reward)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29134 – Gauntlets of the Chosen (l70 Scryer reward)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28390 – Thatia's Self-Correcting Gauntlets (l70, boss in Arcatraz)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27535 – Gauntlets of the Righteous (l70, last boss of Shattered Halls)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27475 – Gauntlets of the Bold (l70, last boss in Steamvault)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23517 – Felsteel Gloves (l70 crafted)

Righteous Gauntlets are probably best for 5 mans, though the block on Thatia's is very nice. None of them compare to Felsteel for raid tanking though. As a sidenote, the Dauntless Handguards ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25788 ) from an Alliance-only quest are -very- good block rating. If you have well over 490 defense and are still trying to get to 102.4% avoidance, these gloves do the job very well. After that point though, Felsteel is superior, as the item points are spent in a more raid-friendly fashion.

Belt:
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30330 – Starcaller's Plated Belt (l70 quest)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30371 – Lightwarden's Girdle (l70 Aldor Quest)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31460 – Sha'tari Vindicator's Waistguard (l70 quest)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27672 - Girdle of the Immovable (l70 heroic Slave Pens)
>5R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29253 - Girdle of Valorous Deeds (l70, Heroic Black Morass)

There aren't a lot of options here, but the Lightwarden's is an excellent 5 man choice until you can get the Valorous Deeds. The Vindicator Waistguard is probably better than the Girdle of the Immovable, unless you put 2 +dodge gems in the latter, making it a much better raid tanking choice. If you're already uncrushable and looking to make some changes from your pre-raid gear, wearing Valorous Deeds over Vindicator waist is a good move.


2.1 update:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30034 - Belt of the Guardian

This belt is probably your best option pre-raid, as it has loads of stamina and good threat stats. It's BoE and is crafted by Blacksmiths, however, it requires the pattern to have dropped and takes Nether Vortexes. Also, it isn't as good as some other options for -attaining- uncrushable, but once you are there, this won't be replaced for a very, very long time.

[ Post edited by Dreamcrusher ]

70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 2. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 12:27:17 PM PDT
quote reply
Legs:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29774 – Kirin'Var Defender's Chausses (l69 quest)
>5<http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27893 – Ornate Leggings of the Venerated (l70, second boss in Shadow Lab)
>5<http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27839 – Leggings of the Righteous (l70, last boss of Black Morass)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29783 – Leggings of the Resolute Defender (l69 quest)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29184 - Timewarden's Leggings (l70 Keepers of Time rep)

Timewarden's are best, properly socketed. Otherwise, Leggings of the Resolute Defender are good for raiding. 5 mans, Ornate Leggings or Leggings of the Righteous.


Feet:
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28069 – Golden Ceremonial Greaves (l64 quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27420 – Uther's Ceremonial Warboots (l66 Old Hillsbrad)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30334 - Starcaller's Plated Stompers (l70 quest)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29254 - Boots of the Righteous Path (l70, heroic Arc)
>5R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30386 - Bloodguard's Greaves (Netherstorm quest)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29325 – Flesh Beast's Metal Greaves (l66 quest)

Personally, I use Golden Ceremonial (Righteous Path is better though) for 5 mans and Flesh Beast for uncrushability. The dodge is very sexy, and there aren't a lot of other options. Bloodguard's Greaves are great for stacking stamina.

-2.1- update!
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30031 - Red Havoc Boots
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30033 - Boots of the Protector

These are both BoE blacksmithing patterns that are unmatched by anything else you can get pre-raid, however, it requires that someone on your server is running SSC/TK and sells you the pattern. :)

Also, 2.1 has brought us...
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32778 - Boots of Righteous Fortitude
Which are decent stam/defense/spelldamage, but don't get you very far towards uncrushability. Good if you're already there and looking to eke out more threat though.


Fingers:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31078 - Protector's Mark (l70 quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28265 - Dath'Remar's Ring of Defense (l70 last boss of Mechanar)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28555 – Seal of the Exorcist (l70 Spirit Shard turnin)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30006 – Wind Trader's Band (l70 quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24088 – Delicate Eternium Ring (l70 crafted)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31319 - Band of Impenetrable Defenses (l70 BoE world drop)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29323 – Andormu's Tear (l70 BM Quest)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28407 – Elementium Band of the Sentry (l70, Arcatraz last boss)

I'm partial to Andormu's/Elementium Band combo. Barring what's listed here, if you can get a random green ring “of Eluding” the massive amount of Agility/Dodge Rating is pretty good. :) For 5-mans, a mix of high block value (such as Dath'Remar's) and Spell damage (Seal of the Exorcist) is probably best.

Trinkets:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28042 – Regal Protectorate (l63 quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27770 – Argussian Compass (l70, heroic Underbog last boss)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23836 – Goblin Rocket Launcher (350 Goblin Engineering)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23835 – Gnomish Poultryizer (350 Gnomish Engineering)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27891 – Adamantine Figurine (l70 second boss of Shadow Lab)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27529 – Figurine of the Colossus (l70 last boss of Shattered Halls)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30300 – Dabiri's Enigma (l70 quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24125 - Dawnstone Crab (BoP Jewelcrafting recipe)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31858 - Darkmoon Card: Vengeance

Which trinket you should use entirely depends on the rest of your gear. If you can get uncrushable without your trinket slots, putting some high stam pieces (Engi, DM Card: Vengeance or Madness) can make a huge difference in your survivability. If you're relying on your trinkets for uncrush, then Figurine of the Colossus and Adamantine/Dabiri's is a great combo.

Shield:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25828 – Petrified Lichen Guard (l62 Sporeggar rep)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27887 – Platinum Shield of the Valorous (l68, Shadow Lab first boss)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28316 – Aegis of the Sunbird (l70, second boss of Botanica)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31491 - Netherwing Defender's Shield (l70 quest)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27910 – Silvermoon Crest Shield (l70 last boss of Shadow Lab)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29176 – Crest of the Sha'tar (l70, Sha'tar Exalted)

The Crest of the Sha'tar is far and away the best pre-raid shield, IMO. The Netherwing Defender's Shield probably has the best mix of threat/mitigation for 5-mans. (Warning: do NOT get the Netherwing Protector's Shield! I made this mistake, trying to max out my mitigation. There are much better pure mitigation shields, but no real sidegrades to the Caster/Tank stats on the Defender.)

2.1 Update:
The Ogri'la Aegis is a great shield, nearly identical to the Crest of the Sha'tar, just the difference in epics/blues is between them. I'm not sure if it would take longer to grind Ogri'la rep or just go for Sha'tar, but Sha'tar is better for you in the long run anyway.

Also, the Merciless Gladiator's Shields are -AMAZING- armor/stamina/block value for a pre-raid level (one has spelldmg too) but offer little to nothing as far as defense/avoidance/block rating. Switching to one of these (if affordable) WILL give you a very large jump in effective health, but requires the rest of your gear to be able to handle uncrushability without it's help.

Weapons:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24361 – Spellfire Longsword (l62, first boss of Slave Pens)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24384 – Diamond-Core Sledgemace (l61, first boss of Blood Furnace)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27899 – Mana Wrath (l70, last boss of Mechanar)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27905 – Greatsword of Horrid Dreams (l70, last boss of Shadow Lab)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30832 - Gavel of Unearthed Secrets (l70, Lower City Rep)
>5R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29185 – Continuum Blade (l70, KoT rep)


2.1 Update: Crystalforged Sword is excellent for pre-raid gear, as it has comparable spelldmg to the CB and trades the hit for block rating. Less stam though, so I prefer CB overall, spellhit is pretty good too :)


Continuum Blade is arguably the best tanking weapon a paladin can get for a long time. For Alliance Paladins, the Gavel of Unearthed Secrets is a viable sidegrade to the CBlade, as Seal of Vengeance is more reliable with a slower weapon. Horde Paladins probably shouldn't bother, but that's just IMO. As a sidenote, there are situations where you -don't- need spelldamage and a weapon with better tanking stats or more physical damage is much more preferred. Followed is a list of non-spell damage weapons that will be very useful in certain situations:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31071 – Grom'tor's Charge (l70 quest)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28311 – Revenger (l70, first boss of Botanica)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28189 – Latro's Shifting Sword (l70 Last boss of Black Morass)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29362 – The Sun Eater (l70, heroic Mechanar last boss)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28425 - Fireguard (l70 Swordsmithing)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29165 - Warbinger (Thrallmar rep)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29156 - Honor's Call (Honor Hold rep)

On the physical damage weapons, your best bet is probably the Sun Eater as far as mitigation goes. Fireguard is your best threat weapon, if not using Seal of Righteousness. As an aside, the other weaponsmithing choices are not very good tanking options, seeing as we're going for speed for Seal/Judge procs if we're not using our spelldamage weapon. Warbringer and Honor's Call are both viable options for a physical damage weapon.


Librams:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22400 – Libram of Truth (l52 BRD drop)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24386 – Libram of Saints Departed (l61 Blood Furnace)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27917 – Libram of Eternal Rest (l68 Sethekk Halls)
>5R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29388 – Libram of Repentance (l70, heroic badge turnin)

Libram of Repentance is easily the best tanking Libram available.

[ Post edited by Dreamcrusher ]

70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 3. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 12:27:51 PM PDT
quote reply
Credits:
The “Maintankadin” Community: http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/index.php

wowwiki.com

Gestalt's tanking guide: http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/viewtopic.php?t=7

Zoe's Defense and Mitigation thread on the EU Pally forums: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=265036995&sid=1

My guild, for putting up with the learning curve of having a paladin tanking, and encouraging me to keep going: www.anti-thesis.com
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 4. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 12:28:24 PM PDT
quote reply
Permanent Armor Enhancements, by Slot.



Head:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=19783 - (10 stam, 10 defense, 24 healing) ZG enchant
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29191 - (22 spellpower, 14 spellhit) Sha'tar Revered
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29186 - (16 defense, 17 dodge) Caverns of Time Revered

Sha'tar for 5 man gear, Caverns of Time for raid tanking and ZG for nostalgia/multi-purpose.

Shoulders:
Your only real options are the Holy Dust turnins for Aldor/Scryer. The Aldor ones are slightly better for pure avoidance.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28889 (15 Dodge, 10 Defense) vs. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28911 (15 Defense, 10 Dodge)
and
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28882 (13 dodge) vs http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28908 (13 defense)

Back:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=25086 (12 dodge)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=34004 (12 agi)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27961 (120 armor)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27962 (+7 all resistance)

The dodge enchant is the best, but not always available or feasible (especially on a pre-raid cloak) 12 agi is a very suitable replacement.



Chest:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27957 (150 health enchant)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27960 (+6 all Stats)

Very arguable, probably not that big of a difference, either way.


Wrists:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27905 (4 all stats)
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27917 (15 spellpower)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27906 (12 defense)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27914 (12 stamina)

Spellpower is good on your 5 man wrists, while you want more avoidance or more stam on your real tanking bracers.

Hands:
>5< http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33997 (20 spellpower)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=25072 (2% threat)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=25080 (15 agility)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33994 (15 spellhit)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25651 (8 defense)
>R< http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25650 (8 stamina)

Both the threat and 15 agility enchants can be very hard to come by on some servers, so you may be better served by spellpower, or a lesser agi enchant. The Spell hit enchant is a very viable option as well, less taunt resists can make a big difference, and spellhit is very hard to come by on tanking gear. The Armor Kits (8 defense or stam) are also a very viable option.

Legs:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29534 (30 stam 10 agi)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29536 (35 stam 12 agi)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24273 (25 spelldmg 15 stam)
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24274 (27 spelldmg 18 stam)

Clefthoof (nethercleft if possible) definitely the way to go for raids. If you're really that set on maximizing your 5 man set, the scryer spellthread owns.

Boots:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=34008 (9 stam and minor run speed)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=34007 (6 agi and minor run speed)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27951 (12 agi)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27950 (12 stam)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27948 (4 hp5/mp5)

The jury's still out on this. You can't go wrong with more HP, but some might say that the Vitality wins out in long fights. Arguments can be made for both sides, but when in doubt, go for Stam or Avoidance.

Weapons:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27984 (proc 120 agi and weapon haste)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=28004 (proc 180-300 heal)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27975 (40 spelldmg)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=23800 (15 agi)

Personal preference here. You can't really go wrong with 40 spelldmg tho. :)

Shields:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27947 (+5 resistances)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27946 (15 block rating)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=34009 (18 stamina)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27944 (18 block value)

Arguments could be made for all of them, but the cheap cost of 18 stamina sets it above the others IMO.


Sockets:

As a general rule of thumb, the socket bonus is usually not worth putting in a sub-optimal gem. If you CAN put in a good gem and still get the bonus, by all means, do so.

I am a heavy proponent of the +12 stam and +8 Dodge rating gems. Unfortunately, they aren't available yet on my server, so I'm stuck making a lot more difficult gear decisions. I will be ignoring socket colors though, to put those red(dodge) and blue(stam) gems into my gear, as those 2 gems focus purely on the stats we need most as a raid tank.
As always though, personal preference always plays a big role. If you think that putting in +4 Defense/+6 Stam to get +3 Parry Rating is worth more than just a straight +8 Dodge or +12 Stam though, don't let me stop you. :)

There are -some- socket bonuses that are worth it. Getting an extra 4 block rating for using a yellow gem over a red/blue one can mean an extra .5% less chance to be crushed, so it really just depends on the individual piece and the rest of your gear. There are no hard and fast rules about what gems are best.



[ Post edited by Dreamcrusher ]

70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 5. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 12:47:09 PM PDT
quote reply
Very nice! A great resource, I am currently lvl 39 Holy, but have decided to respec Prot. Your guide will be very valuable I think!

I especially appreciate the links--many thanks!

Tank till they drop!

A is A
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 6. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 12:49:14 PM PDT
quote reply
Thanks for the bump!


Report for sticky IMO, I'd hate for this to get lost in the slew of drivel posted on these boards. /cough


However, just in case it is... it can always be found at: http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/index.php

70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 7. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 01:50:36 PM PDT
quote reply
Great work and thanks for your time putting this stuff together!

You mentioned above that there are times when spell damage is not necessary on a MH weapon. Can you embelish on this? I was under the impression that it was the only way to generate a large amount of threat.

Thanks
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 8. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 01:58:43 PM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
Great work and thanks for your time putting this stuff together!

You mentioned above that there are times when spell damage is not necessary on a MH weapon. Can you embelish on this? I was under the impression that it was the only way to generate a large amount of threat.

Thanks



This question, in and of itself, is almost dangerous to tackle, but let me try my best.


It has been -my experience- that in a lot of situations (especially single-target tanking scenarios, like most Bosses) that my efficacy as a tank is greatly improved if I switch weapons (sometimes multiple times) in combat.

I use my Continuum Blade at the beginning of the fight to boost Avenger's Shield, Holy Shield, Consecrate and Seal of Righteousness damage (and in turn, the threat generated by them) Usually, this is aided by use of Avenging Wrath, making that extra spell damage even more helpful. However, once you get a good chunk of the way into the fight (especially on Demons/Undeads) you -should- have a decent-sized agro lead over your DPS. Your healer shouldn't be anywhere near the DPSers, but again, in my experience, at about the time the boss is at 70-80% I am literally thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) threat ahead of everyone else in my group.


At this point, the spelldamage added by, say a Continuum Blade, isn't really necessary. You can afford to switch it out for a weapon with better mitigation stats (say, King's Defender, Sun Eater, something like that) and also afford to not use Seal of Righteousness. This frees up your Seal (and judgement, if you were using JotC) for other uses. In most 5-man situations, I'll Seal/Judge Wisdom so that I have more than enough Mana to keep max rank Holy Shield/Consecration up, so that my threat suffers less, and my mitigation stays top-notch. If Mana and threat are both non-issues, you could switch to Seal/Judge of Light, further increasing your mitigation.


Obviously, all of this is debatable, and doesn't apply in every situation, but it has helped me greatly when I've been able to make use of it. Currently, I use a Revenger for my physical damage weapon, as it's fast enough to make a notable difference in Seal/Judge procs, vs. the Continuum Blade.
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Proudmoore
  • 9. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 02:16:05 PM PDT
quote reply
Excellent guide! A few pieces of note that you missed:

Head -- Myrmidon's Headdress http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28180
Shoulder -- Fanblade Pauldrons http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27847 (I still prefer righteous, but these do have slightly higher mitigation)
Waist -- Girdle of the Immovable http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27672 (I've got this socketed for stamina and planning on using it for heroics/raid trash)
Ring -- http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31078 (decent balance of stats, also questable so a good starter ring)
Ring -- http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28265 (not excellent, but good to pair with the previous one for a blocking tank set)
Shield -- Netherwing Defender's Shield http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31491 (a good mix of stats, my favorite shield for non-heroics)

edit -- one more:

Weapon -- Gavel of Unearthed Secrets http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30832 (I'm not a huge fan personally, but it's a sidegrade from the Continuum Blade that's useful for SoV tanking)

[ Post edited by Dorvan ]


Gestalt's Tankadin Guide: http://tinyurl.com/2yyley
Prot AoE Grinding Guide: http://tinyurl.com/2y63ln
Hi, my name is Dorvan....and I'm a Prot Grinder: http://tinyurl.com/2ayush
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 10. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 02:18:07 PM PDT
quote reply
Very nice. It looks like I've been on the right track (or at least same track ;) ) with a lot of my gear choices / goals or drops.

One thing I noticed, the activation of the figurine of the collosus seems to share a CD with Holy Shield (I thought I saw this happen and wasn't in an environment I felt I should test my theory).

Also, http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28425 Fireguard fairly easy to craft swordsmith weapon, I use it to switch out occassionally, it's fast, stam, agility, and didn't notice on your post.
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Proudmoore
  • 11. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 02:19:39 PM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
Very nice. It looks like I've been on the right track (or at least same track ;) ) with a lot of my gear choices / goals or drops.

One thing I noticed, the activation of the figurine of the collosus seems to share a CD with Holy Shield (I thought I saw this happen and wasn't in an environment I felt I should test my theory).

Also, http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28425 Fireguard fairly easy to craft swordsmith weapon, I use it to switch out occassionally, it's fast, stam, agility, and didn't notice on your post.


Yup, activating Holy Shield triggers a 10 sec cooldown on the figurine, but activating the figurine doesn't trigger a cooldown (not even a GCD) on Holy Shield. Just use the Figurine first and you'll be fine (you can even macro it).

Gestalt's Tankadin Guide: http://tinyurl.com/2yyley
Prot AoE Grinding Guide: http://tinyurl.com/2y63ln
Hi, my name is Dorvan....and I'm a Prot Grinder: http://tinyurl.com/2ayush
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 12. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 02:24:44 PM PDT
quote reply
I swear it ate this post a while ago... >_<


Anyway, to avoid the horrors of double-posting, here's a random picture.

http://www.icanhascheezburger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/totemcat-miles.jpg

[ Post edited by Dreamcrusher ]

70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 13. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 02:54:22 PM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
Excellent guide! A few pieces of note that you missed:

Head -- Myrmidon's Headdress http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28180
Shoulder -- Fanblade Pauldrons http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27847 (I still prefer righteous, but these do have slightly higher mitigation)
Waist -- Girdle of the Immovable http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27672 (I've got this socketed for stamina and planning on using it for heroics/raid trash)
Ring -- http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31078 (decent balance of stats, also questable so a good starter ring)
Ring -- http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28265 (not excellent, but good to pair with the previous one for a blocking tank set)
Shield -- Netherwing Defender's Shield http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31491 (a good mix of stats, my favorite shield for non-heroics)

edit -- one more:

Weapon -- Gavel of Unearthed Secrets http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30832 (I'm not a huge fan personally, but it's a sidegrade from the Continuum Blade that's useful for SoV tanking)


and


Q u o t e:
Very nice. It looks like I've been on the right track (or at least same track ;) ) with a lot of my gear choices / goals or drops.

One thing I noticed, the activation of the figurine of the collosus seems to share a CD with Holy Shield (I thought I saw this happen and wasn't in an environment I felt I should test my theory).

Also, http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28425 Fireguard fairly easy to craft swordsmith weapon, I use it to switch out occassionally, it's fast, stam, agility, and didn't notice on your post.


Thanks!

I've added these both in, and updated the small blurb at the end to include them in consideration for 5 man and raiding situations.

Keep the suggestions rolling!
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 14. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 03:04:13 PM PDT
quote reply
Thanks for the info Dorvan. . .

Also I hate when posts like this get lost, so good luck good luck with the sticky DC
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Proudmoore
  • 15. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 03:04:40 PM PDT
quote reply
Oh, another suggestion would be to list enchant options, and to add a little overall blurb on gem choice.

Gestalt's Tankadin Guide: http://tinyurl.com/2yyley
Prot AoE Grinding Guide: http://tinyurl.com/2y63ln
Hi, my name is Dorvan....and I'm a Prot Grinder: http://tinyurl.com/2ayush
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 16. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 03:09:46 PM PDT
quote reply
Good idea, Dorvan. I'll throw that one up there.
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 17. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 04:13:40 PM PDT
quote reply
Updated the 4th post with an enchant/socket guide.
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Blackwing Lair
  • 18. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 04:51:19 PM PDT
quote reply
Nice post

I great tool for tankadins just getting started or curious about gear choices.

Thanks
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Vek'nilash
  • 19. Re: Pre-Raid Tanking: Theories, Goals and Gea   04/04/2007 05:02:16 PM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
I swear it ate this post a while ago... >_<


Anyway, to avoid the horrors of double-posting, here's a random picture.

http://www.icanhascheezburger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/totemcat-miles.jpg


Your apology, in the form of this adorable Kitty Totem, is accepted.

...Oh! And the guide's good too. :)

Edit:

And a question I forgot.

Not finding a good example build to go with talents, I found the two example builds on the website you noted, and which also happens to be in my sig as well...

...anywho, the deal is, when you're not raiding, can either the "Bread and Butter, Sword and Board" build and "Tank with Perks" build be applied to solo questing/mat grinding?

[ Post edited by Iliya ]


/cast [help] Righteous Defense; [target=targettarget,help] Righteous Defense
If you're a pally copy this line, paste it into a macro, read this http://tanking.sneakykitty.com/?page_id=3, and TANK!
1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 . 10 . 11 . 12 . 13 . 14 . 15 . 16 . 17 . 18
Forum Nav : Jump To This Forum
Blizzard Entertainment