Here is the perfect way to put across the difference between an equally geared paladin and warrior.

Here is Lethality, the prot warrior in my guild who recently usurped my position. Although our gear is not exactly the same, most of it is actually identical, and I think you will agree that the average level of the total item value is pretty much dead even.

Lethality: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Smolderthorn&n=Lethality

Megor: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Smolderthorn&n=Megor

(getting an 8dodge gem for the legs soon, will increase my dodge by about .2%; for some reason the 18stm meta gem isnt showing, but it's there)

Here is your chance to criticize my gear, make comparisons/suggestions (to both me or Blizzard), and discuss.

Well..he has more Parry, Block, Dodge, Defense, Armor, and Health. Not to mention Shield Wall, Last Stand, and a Legendary. Are you upset they'd rather heal him than you?

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Q u o t e:
Well..he has more Parry, Block, Dodge, Defense, Armor, and Health. Not to mention Shield Wall, Last Stand, and a Legendary. Are you upset they'd rather heal him than you?

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That's the point. Both players have invested the same amount thowards making thei characters great tanks...one is shut out of that role. If we're tank/healer hybrids, shouldn't we be able to tank?

So him being a better tank completely negates you're ability to do so?

I think not.

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Q u o t e:
So him being a better tank completely negates you're ability to do so?

I think not.

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In effect, yes. Who would you want tanking for your raids?

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Q u o t e:


In effect, yes. Who would you want tanking for your raids?

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Depends who you ask actually.

They have almost the same stamina -- warrior has 1200 more hps
They have almost the same gear -- warrior has higher armor, much more avoidance -- and that's not even including the headstart you get just by being a warriors -- thunderclap, demoralizing shout, 4% more after armor mitigation from defensive stance.

And this isn't going to get smaller as time goes on, its going to get bigger.

So, as some point in time, Megor isn't even going to be a legit OT, and they will just sub him or some dps person out to do an encounter that needs more tanks.

Tanking is the most min/max'ed aspect of the game and being 10% worse at tanking means you aren't a tank.

P.S. How broken is Styleen's Scarab btw that I really want one even though its lvl 60 gear....

Id want the warrior tanking my raids of course. He is the best for the job.

But just because he is the best at it, doesn't mean you (or I) can't do it.

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Q u o t e:
Id want the warrior tanking my raids of course. He is the best for the job.

But just because he is the best at it, doesn't mean you (or I) can't do it.

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No guild is going to gear up a prot pally so that they can tank encounters once the guild has them on farm. In essence, if we won't be used as tanks when the content's still hard we'll be respecc'ing to Holy and healing.

So you honestly think that a hybrid should be a better choice for tank than a pure tanking class, in the games most difficult encounters?

If we were, why would anyone bring warriors at all?

We can heal, tank, and bring huge, flexibile buffs to raids. There is no way they are going to make us better, or even equal to Warriors when it comes to end game tanking.

I ask this next question to all the whiners out there who think they should be the games uber tank.

If you only want to tank, and don't want to heal, why did you roll a paladin over a warrior?

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Q u o t e:


No guild is going to gear up a prot pally so that they can tank encounters once the guild has them on farm. In essence, if we won't be used as tanks when the content's still hard we'll be respecc'ing to Holy and healing.

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It would be a wonder if prot paladins in most guilds even be allowed to roll on half the gear I have, and the obvious disparity between my numbers and Lethality's are exactly the reason. I personally managed to get the gear I have over DPS warriors who weren't interested each and every time, which in each case was just one guy.

My raid leader's current and legitimate concern now deals with 25 mans now. How can he justify putting me (or any other dedicated prot paladin) on a priority with any warrior given that any warrior could spec prot and put it to better use.

If the current trend of warrior superiority continues, I will not see many tanking upgrades past Karazhan-- and it makes good sense really.

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Q u o t e:
So you honestly think that a hybrid should be a better choice for tank than a pure tanking class, in the games most difficult encounters?

If we were, why would anyone bring warriors at all?

We can heal, tank, and bring huge, flexibile buffs to raids. There is no way they are going to make us better, or even equal to Warriors when it comes to end game tanking.

I ask this next question to all the whiners out there who think they should be the games uber tank.

If you only want to tank, and don't want to heal, why did you roll a paladin over a warrior?

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I didn't role a Paladin to only tank. I didn't roll one to only heal either.

And priests that want to roll on +dmg cloth over warlocks and mages should have to wait until the classes that can use the items better get them.

Or, just join a guild that lets you spend your DKP on what you want, when you want it.

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Q u o t e:
So you honestly think that a hybrid should be a better choice for tank than a pure tanking class, in the games most difficult encounters?

If we were, why would anyone bring warriors at all?

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Here's a riddle: Warriors have two talent trees dedicated to something, and it isn't tanking.

What is it?

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Q u o t e:


I didn't role a Paladin to only tank. I didn't roll one to only heal either.

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So tank the encounters where its viable for you to do so without harming the raid, and heal on the other ones.

I still haven't heard a viable arguement as to why blizz should make us equal to or better than warriors as tanks.

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Q u o t e:
Here's a riddle: Warriors have two talent trees dedicated to something, and it isn't tanking.

What is it?

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I don't think any paladins are asking to be the game's one and only tanking class. What they are asking for is to be a competitive and viable alternative to a warrior in the position of MT. Currently paladins are restricted by game mechanics from even being a competive tank, as well as some itemization issues. Combine that with the complaining on the warrior forums about how they might actually have to compete for the job of MT, and blizzard will likely never make paladins a viable choice for the MT position in end-game raids wrt itemization and mechanics issues.

Warriors are not a "pure" tanking class. They can spec to do dps instead of tanking and sacrifice their ability to tank end-game bosses in the name of doing dps. That is no more a "pure" class than a hybrid is. We have an entire tree dedicated to tanking. If we are not meant to tank, then why give us an entire talent tree to improve tanking. If one is OT, then one need not spec deep prot to do so. But if we spec deep prot to tank, we are still limited by itemization and mechanics from doing so in high-end content. What point is there in speccing deep prot in an end-game raiding guild if you will never get to utilize it? Might as well go holy at that point, because being specced deep prot and not being able to use it is pointless.

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Q u o t e:


So tank the encounters where its viable for you to do so without harming the raid, and heal on the other ones.

I still haven't heard a viable arguement as to why blizz should make us equal to or better than warriors as tanks.

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If viability ends at kharazan, paladin tanking is a gimmick not a reality.

What's the argument for making warriors better than paladins, then? They can only tank? I think not, herr Donovan.

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Q u o t e:
So tank the encounters where its viable for you to do so without harming the raid, and heal on the other ones.

I still haven't heard a viable arguement as to why blizz should make us equal to or better than warriors as tanks.

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....but our point is that past Karazhan there are no such encounters, and no reason to use a Prot Pally if you've got a Prot Warrior in the raid. If there are room for Holy Priests, Resto Druids, and Holy Pallies in the same raid, I'm sure it's possible for Prot Warriors, Prot Pallies, and Feral Druids to coexist. Right now, however, Paladins are on a trajectory to be excluded entirely from any serious raid tanking.