We had a waste of space priest and hunter (both transfers, both universally hated on our server) somehow get saved to our guild's Karazhan ID today, and when they zoned in, refused to leave and attempted to wipe us, were reported.

The GM told our raid leader that they were sorry, but there was nothing they could do on the situation and that we'd have to wait until Tuesday. It's unknown how they were saved to our instance in the first place, as none of our guild members has grouped with either in the last MONTH, but the GMs refuse to remove them, nor punish them for their actions, stating that since they were saved too, we'd just have to deal with it.

Did I miss something? When did same-faction griefing stop being against the ToS?

It happened to us ages ago too. The response we got from GM's was "too bad, so sad. Tell your raid not to group out of guild".

Basically what can happen is this:

Bob is a member of your raid and has your instance ID.
Jim is a scumbag griefer in shattrath wanting to steal your ID.
Ted is a scumbag griefer outside Karazhan waiting to steal your ID.

Jim is in a group with Ted. They have made their group a raid.

Jim whispers Bob "Hey Bob, wanna run Shattered Halls?"
Bob whispers Jim "sure".
Jim invites Bob to join his group.
Bob joins the raid group.
Bob is now the group leader.
Ted enters Karazhan.

Apparantly that isn't a breach of any terms of service, nor do the GM's consider it to be griefing, despite the clearly malicious intentions of those people.

Now, here is where it gets complicated (what happened to us and an additional factor in the GM's refusing to take action in our case)....

Ted logs on another account he has access to. He gives a character on that account access to the instance later, and griefs with that character. Because it wasn't the character/account that originally duped you into giving up your ID, the GM's will do nothing. It's a whole heap of rubbish.

"Don't group out of guild" is a pretty unacceptable answer when people still need gear/keys/heroic keys and can't always rely on having four guild members to run them through instances. As much as PUGging sucks, it is a fact of life.

This level of customer service is unacceptable.

Don't pug?

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Q u o t e:
I h8 to use it but..
QQ

All anyone ever does on WoW is complain. I miss UO/Shadowbane, killing people and taking the loot they been farming for an hour for was.. fun.

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You're an idiot and this thread is stupider for your contribution. Thanks.

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Q u o t e:
I h8 to use it but..
QQ

All anyone ever does on WoW is complain. I miss UO/Shadowbane, killing people and taking the loot they been farming for an hour for was.. fun.

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that's exactly the reason I stopped playing UO. you were either a PK or you didn't play the game.

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Q u o t e:
Don't pug?

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This would have to be one of the most ridiculous statements ever.

Blizzard should fix the problem. Think about it. It's a /massively multiplayer/ game. If you can't group with people, it stops being multiplayer. Extending it to the furthest reach, how the hell are you ever going to trial new people to your guild if you can't "pick up" from outsiders on your server?

The simplest solution would be to adjust the raid mechanics such that you can't gain an instance id unless the current raid leader is actually inside the instance you are trying to enter. You could get blocked from joining in the same way that you do if you try to zone in when a boss encounter is in progress.

Regardless, consider the following legitimate reasons to group with people who aren't in your guild:

- Trading in cities. Often people will group to find eachother to perform the trade.
- Selling services of class specific abilities. eg: portals, summons, lock picks, etc.

Then there are 'pugs' that often occur between a few guilds. eg:
- World boss raids.
- PVP pre-mades
- Old raid instances that are no longer considered fit for farming as a guild (but may still interest a few people to do).

"Dont pug" is the worst solution. Even if it's more work for blizzard, they should be laying bans down for the behaviour of people where there is clear evidence of griefing. A simple examination of someone's chat history could be all it takes to gather evidence that their actions are griefing.

Can't you just boot them from the group and watch them get hearthed in 1 minute? What am I missing here? =/

If you're saved to an instance you don't get ported... But they woulda have had to have been there for a while to get saved... so Idunno

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Q u o t e:
If you're saved to an instance you don't get ported...

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Fair enough, is that new? I rememeber you could still boot people out of raid instances pre-BC even if they were saved to the instance via boss kill heh

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Q u o t e:
Can't you just boot them from the group and watch them get hearthed in 1 minute? What am I missing here? =/

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Quite a bit. Being ungrouped in a raid instance doesn't hearth you. Even if it did, they could leave the instance, form a 2-man raid group with any random person on the entire server, and just zone back in. Since they're saved to the instance, that's the one they enter.

they wouldn't have been saved to your instance unless one of your people went in with them.

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Q u o t e:
they wouldn't have been saved to your instance unless one of your people went in with them.

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You don't get it. They leader-ed the guy to steal the ID. For unsaved people, you need the leader to have the ID to be able to zone into the saved instance. You don't need the leader to be zoned to have the id.

Of course, his own fault for not noticing it was a raid group. If you were invited to a 5 man and it's a raid, chances are that it is a griefer.

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Q u o t e:


You're an idiot and this thread is stupider for your contribution. Thanks.

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Sad much? Not our fault you have a terrible life.

In game customer service isn't a strong point of WoW, though not necessarily because the people answering our complaints are jerk offs.

There's something to be said for keeping things lasseiz-faire because once you dive into one situation, it sets precedents for subsequent situations that are anywhere from highly similar to almost completely unrelated. You gotta deal with a lot of people in the course of a day and there isn't time to hash everything out like that, so you either set a draconian policy and become der Gestapo or just let it go. Either way has drawbacks.

As far as this one goes, I don't think it would have broken the GM's back to at least say SOMETHING to the griefers or just port them out. I can understand them not wanting to reset raid IDs since there are plenty of ways for people to exploit it.

Just zone out, go wtfpwn ubrs for a little while, while the griefer waits in your kz instance, gets bored, and leaves.

One time our raid got wtfsaved to a random clear ZG run.. but that was back when you couldn't even kick the right person from the raid group aswell.

Since the expansion, GM's seem to have been stripped of absolutely all powers other than to apologize for the inconvenience.

Solution to problem, raid leader must zone into instance first. If raids were coded this way. No one could steal your id, because if they made you raid leader to take it, they would still need you to zone in.

this happened to us in naxx once. after 30 tickets, gm's entered our instance, saw what the non raid players were doing and told them to hearth, or they would be ported out.