I'm intrigued as to the 'shamans need CC' posts and such.

PvE (all builds) - other classes have CC, and we have our own hybrid roles to deal with. We have slight CC with our earth elemental totem but it's not great. I don't think we need any form of CC for PvE.

PvP - Elemental*
Elemental is all about keeping the distance, using your frost and earthbind while you nuke down people to keep them away. It is possible. The only problem at the moment is the dps is probably not big enough, but that is not a CC issue.

PvP - Enhancement
I don't think we need CC...
We just need something for when we are being kited that works reasonably well. Earthbind and frostshock (lol diminishing returns) don't do that well enough. I'm not sure what it is. I think some form of warrior charge would be over the top but something that makes combat against ranged a bit more... likely to succeed? would be fantastic.
I'm not sure about anti-CC's such as fear etc. I don't find that warlocks and shadow priests are fearing me to death anymore. Hunters ice trapping and aimshotting me to death as well as mages ** who sheep, nuke, freeze on the spot and ice lance me to death are my current issues. I can do nothing but run away.

PvP - resto
Great pvp support cast, but can be more easily closed down than many other healing hybrids/pure healing specs. Just my impression maybe.


In conclusion, I don't think we really need a powerful CC, but something to stop ourselves being kited so easily and to assist in kiting (ie keeping mobs at safe distance) would greatly improve PvP.

Also our PvP damage needs to be upped a little, especially elemental. Not sure what others think about that.



* I'm an elemental nub who never played too much elemental pvp so I may be wrong.
** lol wrote priests instead of mage

A netting totem that prevents you and your target from moving for a set amount of time!?

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Q u o t e:
A netting totem that prevents you and your target from moving for a set amount of time!?

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lol I accidentally posted this in general instead of shaman forums.

Sorry!

firts and uhm... firts =O

My though on this trough, Wow is full of different people whit diferent attitude toward the game, you got the casual player the hardcore then you have the cliker and the keybinder.. I could make a list for a while, the point is most people are not on the same level..

Some people who fight and harcore player who can easily micro everything might feel ''underpowered'' and feel that their class got little survavibility. The gear factor adds a lots to it, this guy who raid all day will definatly be able to win agaisnt the casual who run 5man a couple time per week.

From my point of view my styleplay didnt change much whit TBC, we got new tools ( Water shield, Bloodlust ect...) but nothing really exiting.
Other classes new interesting tool( Clock of shadow, ice lance, PW:death), adding new gameplay to TBC, yet shaman got nothing really that change the gameplay or the dymanic of the fight...

Shaman hace their issues but so do other classes, I cant speak for em but for shaman new spell whit totaly new effect that could bring a completly new dynamic to encounter would be interesting.

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Q u o t e:

I thought you might have, heh. Moved for you to the Shaman board.

I think this'll be a long standing contention because the devs don't want to copy/paste a CC ability and the players have built it up as a necessity. Sometimes repeating a thing over and over makes it true in the mind.

Sometimes this strikes me the same as people saying 'My survivability in PVP is terrible'. I think I've practically heard every single class petition that as a primary class concern at one time or another. It sounds reasonable on the face, but doesn't make sense the more you look into it. Granted, this isn't really the same situation, but I think the collective might be so adamant as a collective decision, not necessarily based on the merit of the claim, itself.

Thoughts?

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the cry for CC is indeed a cry for survivability. And while you may be correct about a lot of classes crying about said issue, ive experienced pvp on a lot of classes and never felt more helpless or useless due to complete lack of survivability as a level 70 non-resto shaman.

Tseric, just ask every class who is by far the easiest to kill.
I get ridiculed and made fun of for being the easiest to kill and worst class in pvp.. and I can not get in an heroic group, because my healing lacks.. and I'm dps but why bring a dps that has no CC to a 5 man anymore.. you don't need us anymore.


Every person in my guild will say kill shaman first.. because even resto we last 10% of the time a paladin/priest/druid can

Enhance shaman die before we hit ppl one time, it is really horrible just do poles.. like a joke or something you will see many make complete fun of our class. I promise you.

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Q u o t e:

I thought you might have, heh. Moved for you to the Shaman board.

I think this'll be a long standing contention because the devs don't want to copy/paste a CC ability and the players have built it up as a necessity. Sometimes repeating a thing over and over makes it true in the mind.

Sometimes this strikes me the same as people saying 'My survivability in PVP is terrible'. I think I've practically heard every single class petition that as a primary class concern at one time or another. It sounds reasonable on the face, but doesn't make sense the more you look into it. Granted, this isn't really the same situation, but I think the collective might be so adamant as a collective decision, not necessarily based on the merit of the claim, itself.

Thoughts?

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I don't know, with how pvp is nowadays, we really do have no means to counter various forms of CC making us question ourselves(a reiteration of we require CC/anti-CC). While I understnad the dev's don't want to copy/paste a CC or make a player suggested one. The fact is undeniable, survivability is low, if there were other solutions to help that, we'd take it. But we already can heal ourselves, what else can we do?

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Q u o t e:

I thought you might have, heh. Moved for you to the Shaman board.

I think this'll be a long standing contention because the devs don't want to copy/paste a CC ability and the players have built it up as a necessity. Sometimes repeating a thing over and over makes it true in the mind.

Sometimes this strikes me the same as people saying 'My survivability in PVP is terrible'. I think I've practically heard every single class petition that as a primary class concern at one time or another. It sounds reasonable on the face, but doesn't make sense the more you look into it. Granted, this isn't really the same situation, but I think the collective might be so adamant as a collective decision, not necessarily based on the merit of the claim, itself.

Thoughts?

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....OR maybe they've actually experienced what its like to be completely focused fire from all sources of attack and not even being subject to the chance of survival that a ice blocking, blastwaving/blinking mage sees, or the 12 second godmode that a paladin dons, or the intimidationg shout/plate, the psychic screams, the deathcoils, the assortment of traps - hey im not saying i want deathcoil but why cant I have as much contol of a battle or restart battles to allow me to perform as the dps/support class that i am?

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Q u o t e:

I thought you might have, heh. Moved for you to the Shaman board.

I think this'll be a long standing contention because the devs don't want to copy/paste a CC ability and the players have built it up as a necessity. Sometimes repeating a thing over and over makes it true in the mind.

Sometimes this strikes me the same as people saying 'My survivability in PVP is terrible'. I think I've practically heard every single class petition that as a primary class concern at one time or another. It sounds reasonable on the face, but doesn't make sense the more you look into it. Granted, this isn't really the same situation, but I think the collective might be so adamant as a collective decision, not necessarily based on the merit of the claim, itself.

Thoughts?

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Can I get a direct response as to any information regarding the form of an anti CC for this class pretty please with sugar on top.

Thx for coming tseric btw.

shamans use totems to help the raid....why not a totem to break CC? It's not always about survivability...it's about usefullness in pvp and pve...........

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Q u o t e:
Thoughts?

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Well, CC is essentially as.. irritating, as it possibly can get in PvP. So you're going to have the classes with less/no CC options complain about it whether it's justified or not. Being able to win a few seconds in a PvP encounter is a big thing, when most fights last 4-5 seconds.

I think everyones PvP survivability leaves a bit to be desired. Generally because of the "nuke them with crazy damage and get them out of the way" deal, that makes longer fights pretty much nonexistent. While that remains (and I don't see it going anywhere), everyone will feel like they can't last in PvP.. Since, they can't. That doesn't mean they do bad in it, just that they die fast.. Like everyone else.

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Q u o t e:

I thought you might have, heh. Moved for you to the Shaman board.

I think this'll be a long standing contention because the devs don't want to copy/paste a CC ability and the players have built it up as a necessity. Sometimes repeating a thing over and over makes it true in the mind.

Sometimes this strikes me the same as people saying 'My survivability in PVP is terrible'. I think I've practically heard every single class petition that as a primary class concern at one time or another. It sounds reasonable on the face, but doesn't make sense the more you look into it. Granted, this isn't really the same situation, but I think the collective might be so adamant as a collective decision, not necessarily based on the merit of the claim, itself.

Thoughts?

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I think the collective outcry does kind of lose sight of the merit of the problem, but at the same time I think that the fact that there has been so many is telling of a (if many orders of magnitude smaller than people make it out to be) problem.

Likewise, I think that just a simple ability to appease people would work. Something new however. A lot of us are a bit bitter about the totem system now that we see how much paladin blessings can do for us. That stoneclaw totem buff won't do much to soothe the outcries for a cc/anti-cc ability.

Again, I think the simplest thing could fix what we've perceived as a very large problem.

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Q u o t e:

I thought you might have, heh. Moved for you to the Shaman board.

I think this'll be a long standing contention because the devs don't want to copy/paste a CC ability and the players have built it up as a necessity. Sometimes repeating a thing over and over makes it true in the mind.

Sometimes this strikes me the same as people saying 'My survivability in PVP is terrible'. I think I've practically heard every single class petition that as a primary class concern at one time or another. It sounds reasonable on the face, but doesn't make sense the more you look into it. Granted, this isn't really the same situation, but I think the collective might be so adamant as a collective decision, not necessarily based on the merit of the claim, itself.

Thoughts?

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That is very true. It seems that druids are being very adamant right now, over the nerf to the druids bear form. I find it sad that they cannot see reason to the nerf, only the nerf at its face value.