You want a list of whats wrong with the encounter?

People have killed gruul but the vast majority of kills occured either:

1) using limited invuln potions that no longer work
2) he bugs out and doesn't ground stomp

The encounter is pretty retarded.

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Q u o t e:
What kind of consumables are your raid team using? It appears everything in TBC is tuned to expect rampant usage of flasks and potions. I'd like to know if your raid team can beat it in a dry run without any pots, or if you just conjure yourself up bags of potions whenever you need anything.

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Its like every boss in TBC is Loatheb.

Test the encounters in the gear that your player base will be using, without excessive consumables.

Yeah, Gruul needs some tuning, only the very top tier of guilds have killed him. Less guilds have killed him than have killed KT. The first 25 man encounter in TBC should not be harder than KT/4H.

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Q u o t e:
To much of a resist encounter. and the prices of the FR gear from G'eras costs to much, making progression to slow there.

Lower those costs, grats you just fixed Magtheridon.

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Rofl, what? Have you even done Magtheridon?

Do you bring more than the tanks for melee in your internal testing? Do you only bring the most balanced raid possible or do you realize that most guilds are stacking ONLY ranged classes due to poor encouter design across all of TBC (thus a severe lack of gear on many rogues and dps warriors)? Do you give them unrealistic resistance gear stats that most of us won't have or won't wear due to other itemization issues? Is your internal group running this with mostly Naxx gear equivilant or are they all in top end gear that min/max their stats along with as many consumables as possible, including the flasks that have yet to be discovered due to a terrible RNG luck system? Do you factor in the lag that most of us experience? Speaking of the RNG, do you factor that in for what gear we bring since we are subject to it for our success and progress? Do you factor in the months of raids we would need in KZ and Gruul to get the top end gear on all of our raid? Do you have a true methodology for testing and assuring quality?

Basically, do you look at the lowest common setup for the raid in your testing because our opinion of raiding in TBC so far isn't that overwhelming. It feels like MC all over again as you are relearning how to make smaller encounters difficult (hint: more boss HP and more point blank damage to the melee =/= fun fights). Go back and revist Naxx for the lessons you learned there on balance as that was your best showing to date....but leave behind the mechanics that are overused from WoW 1.0 (void zones, acid spitting/kitting fights, chain lightning, massive chain cleaves, fear, thunderclap, etc)....where is the motivation to do the new content if its just old fights with new artwork (if we are lucky to even get new artwork)

to be fair, if everything were tested in non-consumeable conditions, we'd walk in fully consumeabled and destroy the content. and that would be unchallenging and stupid.

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Q u o t e:
to be fair, if everything were tested in non-consumeable conditions, we'd walk in fully consumeabled and destroy the content. and that would be unchallenging and stupid.

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it appears the only solution is to remove elixirs from the game. mana potions can stay.

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Q u o t e:
to be fair, if everything were tested in non-consumeable conditions, we'd walk in fully consumeabled and destroy the content. and that would be unchallenging and stupid.

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To be fair, you would just bring a few casters and no melee to make it unchallenging and stupid

And consumables? Leave behind Loatheb type fights in Naxx please esp until you reconsider the mats needed for many of the pots out there

Massive stackable consumables RUIN the raiding game and I would be happy to see them removed from the game at this point. HP/Mana pots are ok, but beyond that the NEED for these pots show that the basic design of the classes are lacking as are the raid designs. If the only challenge left to this game is who can timesink the most into farming plants then I don't care to see any new patches

An in case you needed a reminder: we hate your RNG, and to have our survivability in raids be connected to it and remove all skill just to make the fights "epic" shows that you are out of ideas

REALIZE THIS Tigole: Most of us are already talking how we only want to do Gruul/Magtheridon/Nightbane a limited amount of times because of how poor the fights are. You may want to think about these encounters and all raiding in general.

interesting.

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Q u o t e:
Just a quick update:

I wanted to let the raiding community know that we're going to be re-evaluating Magtheridon over the next few weeks. We had expected progress on this boss to go quicker than it has been. Our internal raid group has had success on this boss and we felt that it was tuned accurately. However, we're investigating the encounter to see why it's causing so many issues on live servers. While the encounter is supposed to be challenging, it's not supposed to be more difficult than the encounters in Serpentshrine. It is a low tier raid in Burning Crusade.

We're not going to do anything rash and make sweeping changes without testing them first. But we are keeping our eye on the progress being made in the encounter and considering making some minor tuning adjustments to bring the encounter in line with where it needs to be in the Burning Crusade's raid progression.

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Why don't you re-evaluate all raid content, not sure what you're trying to accomplish by making 25 people farm a flask and full consumes for every boss passed Maulgar.

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Q u o t e:
to be fair, if everything were tested in non-consumeable conditions, we'd walk in fully consumeabled and destroy the content. and that would be unchallenging and stupid.

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So prevent us from using consumables inside raid instances

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Q u o t e:
to be fair, if everything were tested in non-consumeable conditions, we'd walk in fully consumeabled and destroy the content. and that would be unchallenging and stupid.

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It's not unprecedented for a fight to start out basically requiring consumables, then move away from that as your raid gears up. Think back to flasking for the Broodlord in BWL, or how many fire protection pots you had to burn on your first Ragnaros attempts vs what you used 3 months later.

Not trying to justify Naxx-level "you must have 12 different pots active on every raid member or it's GG" requirements, but if your guild's first few Gruul kills take a Flask of the Titans or two it's not the end of the world.

i hate the consumable idea. it makes semi-casual raiding next to impossible. am i willing to spend 1-3 hours every couple of nights raiding? definately. am i willing to spend 3 hours a day farming gold for consumables to raid at all? no way, forget it. i'm just going to pvp i guess :P

Unlike most of the whines here, I don't really find consumable usage to be much of a problem. It's not really fixable without a total gutting of the Alchemy profession. The items themselves are much too strong at this point to be ignored, and if you tune encounters around a raid group that isn't completely potted out, one that is will trivialize it completely. Second, they're all pretty easy to get, minus a few exceptions, and here are the main trouble spots in gathering consumables:

1.) Motes of Fire
2.) No updated Spell Power Flask
3.) Ancient Lichen

Other than that, it's mostly fine. Terocone seems to be following Dreamfoil syndrome, while herbs like Felweed and Dreaming Glory are underutilized in general.

Pertaining to the dungeons in general, here are what I feel are the primary problems:

1.) Respawn timers are much too fast, especially in Serpentshrine. It's under an hour, and there are three large pulls and two collossi before even the first boss. All raid content seems to have a similar theme, Magtheridon included. I'm not really sure why you feel fast respawn timers are fun, especially when all of us are wasting time on the flasks we're using to beat the fights clearing rapidly respawning trash.

2.) Itemization is broken. I'm sure you know this.

3.) Stacked raids in terms of composition seem much more effective than a balanced raid group, especially for Gruul.

If you want commentary on the fights themselves, I'd be happy to provide, however you did not indicate this in your original post.