World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Recent events

Serean

< The ORLY Factor >

Deathwing

0. Recent events 02/08/2007 11:48:38 PM PST

In light of Tseric's sudden bout of chattiness we have seen 1 small buff for warriors. I hope there are more to come. If people would now get over the whole "druids are OP cause they steal my raid spot".

We are not taking a raid spot. If you look at it, pallies are even better healers than they used to be. So are druids, and as far as im aware shaman healing has been buffed a bit. That means that at least 1 person from each of the healing classes can afford to be an off-spec in order to benefit the raid in unique ways.

I totally agree that Warriors are broken due to the new rage generation tables and their consistently nerfed damage. I do not however see that as a cause for calling out Druids as being OP, as we are seen as the most whole of the tanking classes at this point in time.

I see this as Blizzard trying to add a new dynamic to raiding, instead of utilizing the holy trinity for all encounters. Please do not direct your frustration over your class onto the Druid community, if we get nerfed back to what we were there are no tanks, no loot and a hell of a lot of whinging on the forums.

Do not ask for nerfs, look at the issues with the Warrior class and try to point them out in a reasonable way. Some very important changes were made to the Druid class due to informative and well thought out posts.

Thanks for your time, Chev.

Rashgarroth

Twisting Nether

2. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 12:02:48 AM PST

Naw, you guys deserve it, our mechanics are broken, and we should not be yelling out Druid nerf. Though you do quite a bit of DPS in Bear form (I understand thats how you create threat, as would a fury warrior spamming heroic strike type deal), I feel that your damage output is a bit high as a tank, and I do believe it should be toned down a bit, but buff up your static threat. I know alot of your cat and bear abilities are now combined, there should be different forms of them in an essence.

I dunno, that last part sounded super dumb imho, but I stand by my reduce damage/increase threat statement.

Gromgush: Rash, you don't like girls.
Rashgarroth: Ya I do, that's why I like you.

And to Vigor... #1 on the charts beebuh!

Valfreyja

< Ascendant >

Durotan

3. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 12:06:55 AM PST

Stay in the Druid forum. You're only going to antagonize some people with your presence here, no matter your message.

Miserere

< Walmart Securíty >

Burning Legion

4. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 12:08:52 AM PST

Q u o t e:
In light of Tseric's sudden bout of chattiness we have seen 1 small buff for warriors. I hope there are more to come. If people would now get over the whole "druids are OP cause they steal my raid spot".

We are not taking a raid spot. If you look at it, pallies are even better healers than they used to be. So are druids, and as far as im aware shaman healing has been buffed a bit. That means that at least 1 person from each of the healing classes can afford to be an off-spec in order to benefit the raid in unique ways.

I totally agree that Warriors are broken due to the new rage generation tables and their consistently nerfed damage. I do not however see that as a cause for calling out Druids as being OP, as we are seen as the most whole of the tanking classes at this point in time.

I see this as Blizzard trying to add a new dynamic to raiding, instead of utilizing the holy trinity for all encounters. Please do not direct your frustration over your class onto the Druid community, if we get nerfed back to what we were there are no tanks, no loot and a hell of a lot of whinging on the forums.

Do not ask for nerfs, look at the issues with the Warrior class and try to point them out in a reasonable way. Some very important changes were made to the Druid class due to informative and well thought out posts.

Thanks for your time, Chev.

Actually, regardless of our ##*!ed mechanics, I do believe you need to be nerfed, I mean %@@% man, druids get it all, balance wtf?

"Forum poems can not
Warm warriors' cold days
Stop trolling, furry"

Tseric said it himself.....

Elwanderer

< Emerald Dragons >

Elune

5. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 12:41:30 AM PST

Q u o t e:
In light of Tseric's sudden bout of chattiness we have seen 1 small buff for warriors. I hope there are more to come. If people would now get over the whole "druids are OP cause they steal my raid spot".

It is more of a buff for Paladins, IMO

The resilience change was more of a pvp buff for Warriors than a pve buff. It won't have any effects on raid viability, because Enrage doesn't do much when you are in DPS gear with no +resilience (and probably not getting hit/crit that often since you are DPS and not tank).

Druids will never be raiding MTs either, so that can't really be taken into account.

Carne

< Leet Horde >

Deathwing

6. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 12:43:53 AM PST

Q u o t e:

The resilience change was more of a pvp buff for Warriors than a pve buff.

Resilience isn't a pvp stat, duh.You people get dumber by the day, I swear.

Q u o t e:
Druids will never be raiding MTs either, so that can't really be taken into account.

I laughed.

Edghar

< Ludicrous Speed >

Bloodscalp

7. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 12:45:06 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Resilience isn't a pvp stat, duh.You people get dumber by the day, I swear.

It's twice as beneficial in PvP than PvE.

I play WoW on Linux.

Carne

< Leet Horde >

Deathwing

8. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 12:49:03 AM PST

Q u o t e:

It's twice as beneficial in PvP than PvE.

I'm not sure whether this statement is more absurd than your signature or not.

I'll get back to you.

Pursuitx

< Retribution >

Spirestone

9. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:00:25 AM PST

How about they just delete warriors instead of trying to nerf us out of the game, and give us all 70 paladins.
I for one am bored of being the class that gets owned by everything, i love how everyones damage got increased except for what class? oh yea the class that gets nerfed every week, already nerfed how many rends you can have on a mob and that is the lamest ability in the game, how about you make intercept a 3min cooldown and hamstring need a reagent that costs 15g per 1, lets just get rid of rage all together and make it a 2nd health bar so you can watch yourself die quicker.

[ Post edited by Pursuitx ]

Tseric

Blizzard Poster

10. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:16:39 AM PST

Ok, Druid. Even though I'm getting a little weary of other classes coming onto the Warrior boards, whether it be for pity, trolling, support, disdain or what have you, I'll entertain this post rather than move it or delete it.

Q u o t e:
In light of Tseric's sudden bout of chattiness we have seen 1 small buff for warriors.

Some would regard it as a buff, some as a non-nerf, some as a bug fix, some as simply a change. I lean towards the latter of the two.

Q u o t e:

We are not taking a raid spot.

The devs would agree. From what they've seen, warrior tanks tend to out-perform hybrid tanks in raid encounters. Rage mechanics lend themselves better to larger hits and crits from bosses and that won't drastically change in the near future. Threat generation can be separated from damage through game mechanics and the warrior tank ends up as more definitive as a tank in a raid situation. Pallys and Druids have good off-tank, multi-target abilities, which means they can clean up a sloppy pull or peeling targets better than a single target threat generator like the Warrior. The Warrior requires more twitch and target switching to hold aggro on multiple targets.

Q u o t e:
If you look at it, pallies are even better healers than they used to be. So are druids, and as far as im aware shaman healing has been buffed a bit. That means that at least 1 person from each of the healing classes can afford to be an off-spec in order to benefit the raid in unique ways.

Agreed, yet this will be the crux of the more hybrid classes. They may be called on to operate in other ways. A Paladin main tank might run into mana efficiency issues. A druid tank might run into mitigation/rage issues. They may be called on to heal or dps or buff, but during that time they won't be tanking. Those will be real demands from a smaller raid group or even a 5-person group.

Q u o t e:
I totally agree that Warriors are broken due to the new rage generation tables and their consistently nerfed damage.

Hyperbolic. What's a rage generation 'table'? While there may be threat generation issues to work out, rage normalization fears should only be relegated to the over-geared. Armor mitigating rage generation is something the devs are aware of, but it is far from 'broken'. Change could be made, but at the moment that is neither here nor there. As for consistently nerfed damage, a mechanic that has the potential to generate infinite damage will usually seem like it has to be nerfed, because mathmatically rage mechanics have no top end. You're always trying to keep it in reason against a zero line. Subtractive changes, not additive are more of the common course.

Q u o t e:
I do not however see that as a cause for calling out Druids as being OP, as we are seen as the most whole of the tanking classes at this point in time.

Druids are high on situational appeal. Yes, their tanking will serve a purpose, but that "new hotness" feel will wither like any other class balance issue that folks butt heads over. Same as it ever was.

Q u o t e:

I see this as Blizzard trying to add a new dynamic to raiding, instead of utilizing the holy trinity for all encounters.

I think they'd agree with you on that. I know I do.

Q u o t e:
Please do not direct your frustration over your class onto the Druid community, if we get nerfed back to what we were there are no tanks, no loot and a hell of a lot of whinging on the forums.

I wish all class forums would do the same. Rogues and warlocks arguing. Pallys/Druids arguing with Warriors. Priests/Shaman just wanting to hate themselves. Mages have always been crazy...And Hunter's? Dealt with some recent nerfs fairly reasonably, so cheers to them. If they complain about this post, tell them I said to sic their pet on me and I hope they spec'ed BM.

Q u o t e:

Do not ask for nerfs, look at the issues with the Warrior class and try to point them out in a reasonable way.

Reasonable advice for any class. Bug reports and specific reports of effects and abilities are more accessible than term papers and sweeping theories of game design. That's not to say we can't talk about sweeping theories of game design, but doing so is more suggestion or opinion than feedback. You'll find less concrete response in your 'treatise of how [x] class should be revised, revamped or completely deleted' than you would with 'ability [y] seems to function wierd in [z] way'.

And as a final note, the devs don't like nerfing, they like buffing. As it stands, they see legitimate issues of class balance for Warriors and Shaman in the current situation. Changes may occur to any and all other classes, as per usual, but those are points of concern for the devs. Try not to wrap those legitimate concerns in too much exaggeration. Don't tell me it can't happen; I've already seen it.

Slanche.

[ Post edited by Tseric ]

The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. - HST

Legius

< Northrend Commonweal… >

Cenarion Circle

11. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:22:24 AM PST

Q u o t e:
rage normalization fears should only be relegated to the over-geared.

I take issue with this.

Rage normalization is hitting every Warrior that so much as touches gear that is as simple to get as the Halaani Claymore from Halaa, a 9G vendored sword.

So while they should only be relegated to the over-geared, they are hitting home with the normally geared.

"Cue the Infernal."

Tseric

Blizzard Poster

12. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:24:21 AM PST

Q u o t e:

I take issue with this.

Rage normalization is hitting every Warrior that so much as touches gear that is as simple to get as the Halaani Claymore from Halaa, a 9G vendored sword.

So while they should only be relegated to the over-geared, they are hitting home with the normally geared.

Ok, personally I won't take issue with that. However, the devs would probably want to see more math behind that statement.

The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. - HST

Lokkah

Wildhammer

13. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:25:05 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Ok, personally I won't take issue with that. However, the devs would probably want to see more math behind that statement.

Tee hee (theory only works in theory) >:)

................(___)..........
.................|Oo|...........
.......... /```` OO).........
........./ |____-- .......druids are fine, l2p
.......*...L......L............(Ommra EU Blizzard)

Pound

< The Red Cowl Brigade >

Perenolde

14. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:37:31 AM PST

Q u o t e:
That's not to say we can't talk about sweeping theories of game design, but doing so is more suggestion or opinion than feedback.

It strikes me as a problem for (a) warriors wanting to make educated guesses about the future of their class, as well as (b) warriors that want to provide more critical analysis of their play for Blizzard that when patch notes are listed, changes are not accompanied with vision. It seems like the reason for the majority of misfired responses about class problems is that everyone is guessing the intention of the developers based on the changed data and interactions with other players when they could simply be told what the real intent is.

More useful conversation could happen once the community is aware of the intentions behind the changes we see. Then we can better argue their effectiveness.

I am (now) a very casual player that has played the same character with the same group of friends in 5-man instances for only 3 hours a week for over a year now. I only got acquainted with the warrior forums to find out how to improve my aggro control. I have been genuinely confused over the intentions behind the changes to my tanking role. I will never have the best end-game gear, and I spend most of my time trying to control group aggro. What gave and why?

[ Post edited by Pound ]

Chawana

< Four Brothers Inc >

Twisting Nether

15. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:38:16 AM PST

Q u o t e:

And as a final note, the devs don't like nerfing, they like buffing. As it stands, they see legitimate issues of class balance for Warriors and Shaman in the current situation. Changes may occur to any and all other classes, as per usual, but those are points of concern for the devs. Try not to wrap those legitimate concerns in too much exaggeration. Don't tell me it can't happen; I've already seen it.

<3 it may be 2:38AM, but that sounds good. >_>

Wall of Text crits Chawana for 200 sexy damage (6589 resisted because Chawana is sexy)

Pake

< Rise of Unity >

Gilneas

16. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:38:17 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Ok, personally I won't take issue with that. However, the devs would probably want to see more math behind that statement.

Given that only the dev's have this math, nudge them a bit into doing their own calculations and then testing their calculations in the game environment and yes, that means making a warrior (possibly through leveling) and using AVERAGE gear.

Too often people go off their calculations and if the answer looks right, they decide not to test. I don't care how much information a person gathers, because until they compare testing to data, it's just a table of numbers with no meaning. For example, I work in racing and the crew chief of the team is an engineer. Under no circumstance will he take the information gained through testing over what his computer says. It doesn't matter how much the driver complains and tells him what the car is doing and what needs to be done to fix the car, as long as that computer is giving him numbers he assumes work, those are the only numbers he will use. As a result of this, we are currently listed as one of the worst teams in racing, only beating our teammate who has the same type of crew chief and teams who are operating with about 3/4 or less funding. This is currently how I see the dev's as treating warriors.

[ Post edited by Pake ]

"God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it." - Carl Sagan

Mecane

< Echo >

Cenarius

18. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:43:03 AM PST

One thing you have to understand that is a huge problem for warriors is we need rage to generate threat. Plain and simple. Our white damage cannot keep up with 3k spells and 2.5k ambushes. The rage nerfalization was to compensate for dps, but slammed 90% of the warriors in this area. With a 70dps 1h weapon we hit for 210 white. that isnt going to hold anything.

the next problem we have is our builds. we HAVE to spec full prot to tank. This reduces our DPS to nill. Now we cant farm rep like other classes/specs or COMPETE in the arena unless we change spec out of prot. PROT has been FORCED into a necessity for warriors to hang in instances. Since we HAVE to spec PROT, we fail everywhere else.

Akane

< Einherjar >

Andorhal

19. Re: Recent events 02/09/2007 01:45:29 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Ok, personally I won't take issue with that. However, the devs would probably want to see more math behind that statement.

I'll try to post some math tomorrow, but let me just say as a warrior in entirely blues (not exactly "overgeared") at 70, the rage nerf hurts like hell, and really kills the class in alot of respects.

Better to live on your feet than die on your knees.

Forum > Classes > WARRIORS