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It's the value kenco uses for KTM (I looked at the code source). My personal experience with my rogue is that KTM is quite accurate.

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I have adjusted the numbers in the post to reflect this. Let me know if there's any update regarding any of these as far as KTM.


The guide has been updated with the entirety of Section 1, Keybindings and Macros. Nothing spectacular here, but should be of help to newer players.

I love this guide, it's so incredibly well done.

Now only if someone would start guides on certain tanking tricks we use in some of the content.

The fel overseers in Shadow Labs non heroic can be stanced danced, and so can the demon boss.

(my group was used to me fear breaking that when I missed a fear someone died...)

I should stop coming into the forums and reading (and posting) in the negative threads but it's gems like these that I am afraid I'll miss.

I find that a short macro makes Intervene much more useful when tanking.

#showtooltip intervene
/cast [help] intervene; [target=targettarget] intervene
/startattack [harm]
-Intervenes your friendly target, or your target's target if your target isn't friendly
-Restarts auto attack on an unfriendly target

Basically if someone pulls the mob off of you, you can intervene to that person without dropping your hostile target. Makes intervene way easier to use.

Cider,

Kudos for another job well done; I've been following your work for over a year now and owe much of the compliments I receive on tanking directly to you. Thank you for taking the time to consolidate the need-to-know info for any aspiring tank as well as providing an invaluable resource for the already savvy.

Cheers,
Fea

yes its coming along very nicely as we knew it would...

Cider, thanks for the links to some other resource threads, including mine ;) it got an extended life in v2 but will eventually break from bumps and can now be found easily through this from page 1 /cheer

the 2.0 warrior macro thread has, I think, the same philosophy - that its a basis for experimenting and finding what works for individuals

Cogwheel has a useful sticky in the UI forum for those who'd like to read more on macros & FAQ - perhaps add it too?
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=71623687&sid=1

On a wider note, when I first came to these forums and read Satrina's work 'back in the day', it just blew me away - as did 'Hold the Line'.

/salute warriors

Moz

I have updated the links as such, Jedroth.

To everyone posting positive comments here, thank you. I am reading them! I tend to limit replies to the guides except when updating or responding to questions. :-)

Excellent post Cinderhelm!! A very well done guide indeed!

I normally only like to browse the Warrior forums to see what is up with my class rather than actively engage in trolling. However, after reading this guide and reading 'Hold the Line' I felt compelled to post. Thank you for all of your work Ciderhelm in educating the uneducated and enlightening some of the older veterans like myself that have been playing since release or maybe even Beta. Your work has helped me out greatly and I'm sure it will continue to do so. Thanks again.

Not to bring any doubt, but I have never heard of Parry increasing attack speed. Any documentation to back that up?

Excellent guide Ciderhelm

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Not to bring any doubt, but I have never heard of Parry increasing attack speed. Any documentation to back that up?

Excellent guide Ciderhelm

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Ignore the time of day; I just woke up or I would give a more comprehensive reply to this.
There is a semi-recent topic floating around these forums (and another from six+ months ago) where I have posted specific numbers from testing. A search with the notoriously difficult to use Search function for Parry hasn't found either, so I'm not sure I can refer you to that.

If you can decipher it, here's a portion of my /combatlog. I need coffee or something before I can write any detailed responses, but make of this what you will.

This is a 3.7sec speed weapon, and a lucky string of Parries:
13:53:22.312 You hit Ilmare for 224.
13:53:23.641 Ilmare attacks. You parry.
13:53:24.533 You hit Ilmare for 228.
13:53:24.752 Ilmare attacks. You parry.
13:53:25.660 Ilmare attacks. You parry.
13:53:26.395 You crit Ilmare for 451.
13:53:26.739 Ilmare attacks. You parry.
13:53:27.662 Ilmare attacks. You parry.
13:53:28.413 You hit Ilmare for 222.
13:53:28.773 Ilmare misses you.
13:53:29.790 Ilmare attacks. You dodge.
13:53:30.666 Ilmare attacks. You parry.
13:53:31.605 You hit Ilmare for 215.


edit:
Nearly all of the Block/Dodge/Parry mechanics are my personal testing. They aren't pulled from Wowwiki or another poster. You can ask me method or anything like that on any of the details. :)

This is a great post. Thanks for the in-depth and well thought out information. Have you thought of writing a blog Cider? It would be great to read about your experiences tanking the new instances.

Great guide cider! Thought I'd drop by to say hello :p

awesome guide, quite a few things i did not know.

EDIT: rephrasing my question on resilence so its not so noobish.... what are your thoughts on resilience? you didnt get into it very much in your guide, and its sorta new to me so i dont understand it completely yet.

Resilience reduces the chance to be crit and reduces the amount of damage a critical does when it lands on you.

that being said, this is a PVE guide and if you want to tank as a warrior you want to be at 490 minimum defense. When mobs hit for 4k+ you'll get smashed by a crit for 8k. That's not pretty. That's spike damage and that will lead to your death and possibly a wipe.

So that's why it's not mentioned, it's close to useless for the PVE warrior.

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rephrasing my question on resilence so its not so noobish.... what are your thoughts on resilience? you didnt get into it very much in your guide, and its sorta new to me so i dont understand it completely yet.

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Resilience is a fine stat, especially for PVP. Amynomene nailed it, though -- Defense is going to remove crits in PVE content on it's own; Resilience is entirely unnecessary for tanking (unless you simply can't find gear to reach 490 Defense).

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Great guide cider! Thought I'd drop by to say hello :

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Gnome! I've been missing you! You still log into the server at all, or time zone difference still making it too difficult? (btw, I caught most of your Blacksmithing information through Beta)

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This is a great post. Thanks for the in-depth and well thought out information. Have you thought of writing a blog Cider? It would be great to read about your experiences tanking the new instances.

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I don't even know how blogs work. :(

//edit: edited out the edited in edit.

Renewed my faith in the Warrior Tank as well as with Blizzard. Thank you! Amazing thread, it's amazing how much work goes into the threat/agro system. And how every single ability affects it.

Regards,

Dekaol

Extremely well written. The threat info is also very useful. I do however have a suggestion for those who like to set up custom key bindings:
I use the bars that you can add to your UI via the interface options, so I actualy have 2 rows of skills to work with.
1 2 3 4 5 6 .... (continue down if desired)
Q - e r t y ..... ( Continue down the row if desired)

the - between Q and E is actualy my middle mouse button, so that skill is always directly available. I strafe using the mouse, which is easier anyhow because i can turn if needed.

I've used this set up for a long time and it works exceptionally well for me. I put neutral-stance (any stance) skills in 1-6 that are used often. I put stance-specific skills in the bottom row.

This set up, on a regular Microsoft keyboard gives me anywhere from 12 immediately available skills to 20 (if you can use your movement hand to reach over to 0)

Some might say "what about moving while using skills" I use my mouse buttons to move when in combat usually.

The only problem with this build, being a warrior is pvp, its not that great because it can get iffy using your skills and moving at the same time, but I could probably fix that by moving skills around a bit, but I'm more pve focused right now

Taskarnin,
I have tried something similar to this, it doesn't work well for me in PVP but it works well in PVE (exactly the reasons you are describing). I hope people get a chance to read your comments here.


Update: I have added section 2, Defensive Talent Builds. I will shortly be importing and updating sections of Hold the Line to this thread.

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Toughness will allow you to live 10% longer while tanking. Percentage increases in Armor have a curved relation to Damage Reduction; they have a linear relation to life expectancy.

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I'd like to see the math and logic behind this one. Request for a proof, pls.

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I'd like to see the math and logic behind this one. Request for a proof, pls.

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The math is linked to in the same section:

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More detailed information can be found here:
http://evilempireguild.org/guides/diminishmath.php

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