Thanks for the sticky and the responses, Tseric!

I'm still trying to make sense of the youtube.

About damn time this got stickied. Well played, Mr. Tseric.

Cider, if you ever want/need help with your guides (writing, testing, or otherwise), I'd be happy to help. I still want to see this produced as a text document - I may even just do that myself...

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Q u o t e:
is that split between all mobs hitting you or 60 threat for each mob you are in combat with?

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It would be split between all monsters you're on the aggro list of.

Great guide.

Any chance of adding info to the threat section for weapon/enchant procs?
namely Thunderfury threat, but some people may also want to see threat info on crusader/life-steal enchants, etc.

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Q u o t e:
0.5 Threat & Threat Values

This is where Taunt comes in. The Warrior Taunt immediately places you at 100% aggro of whoever the highest-Threat player is on the target list for that creature.

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I'd like clarification on this, as it's not what I'd seen tested before (and unfortunately I cannot test it myself immediately, without being fired).

Are we certain that Taunt puts you at 100% aggro(sic- threat) of whoever the highest-threat player is, or the threat of the current aggro holder?

I was under the impression from what testing I had done that it put you at the threat level of the current aggro holder, not the highest threat individual.

This is an important distinction because of the 110%, and 130% rule. For instance, assume threat is static (nobody is doing anything), and a mage at range is sitting at 120% of my threat. If I hit taunt, and hit nothing else, and then after the duration of taunt, that mage walks into range, do we claim that the mob will not turn and hit him/her?

The reason I question this is that the taunt tooltip would be misleading at best, incorrect at worst, claiming that it has no effect if the target is already attacking me. In fact, it would begin to work to a warrior's advantage to start taunting whenever anyone exceeded the warrior's threat in a raid setting (regardless of if they pulled aggro or not), simply because it's free threat boostage.

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Q u o t e:


I'd like clarification on this, as it's not what I'd seen tested before (and unfortunately I cannot test it myself immediately, without being fired).

Are we certain that Taunt puts you at 100% aggro(sic- threat) of whoever the highest-threat player is, or the threat of the current aggro holder?

I was under the impression from what testing I had done that it put you at the threat level of the current aggro holder, not the highest threat individual.

This is an important distinction because of the 110%, and 130% rule. For instance, assume threat is static (nobody is doing anything), and a mage at range is sitting at 120% of my threat. If I hit taunt, and hit nothing else, and then after the duration of taunt, that mage walks into range, do we claim that the mob will not turn and hit him/her?

The reason I question this is that the taunt tooltip would be misleading at best, incorrect at worst, claiming that it has no effect if the target is already attacking me. In fact, it would begin to work to a warrior's advantage to start taunting whenever anyone exceeded the warrior's threat in a raid setting (regardless of if they pulled aggro or not), simply because it's free threat boostage.

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This is a very specific question for which I've actually written a section for (and given as a response in another thread on the forums). It will be added in.

It is only in relation to the highest threat that currently holds aggro. That is accurate as of the last time this was tested (which, if I recall, was over a year ago but should still be correct).

Excellent, then I wasn't incorrect when I thought I was not misinformed.

The wording in the quoted piece was a bit confusing, and could easily be interpereted to mean it set the Taunter to the threat level of the highest threat player, not the aggro holder.

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Q u o t e:

This is where Taunt comes in. The Warrior Taunt immediately places you at 100% aggro of whoever the highest-Threat player is on the target list for that creature. It also bypasses the 10% rule and does not require you build immediate threat. When tanking, it may be helpful to remember that you can let any player you want build Threat for you on a mob -- all you have to do is Taunt the mob to get everything they worked for and make the mob yours. This is also a good argument for Improved Taunt.

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Oh wow. A world of possibility just opened up in my mind.

Thanks for this magnificent post. There's a lot of good stuff in here.

What kind of threat does Bloodthirst or Mortal Strike generate?

With AP well over 1500, - how does a 750 Bloodthirst stack up on the threat meter in comparison with Shield Slam?

Mortal Strike vs. Shield Slam?

I'm interested in finding out what kind of threat generation an off-spec tank sacrifices.

grats on sticky - well deserved...

please take the macros you want - at least they can be seen here ;)


/wave Tseric

Grats on the sticky, cider. Keep up the good fight of analyzing the warrior class. Dare I say, hold the line?

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Q u o t e:
Devastate is more threat than Sunder Armor when dealing 201 damage. It is more Rage efficient than Sunder Armor when dealing 274 damage. The innate threat of Devastate does not increase. Devastate is Normalized, meaning it faster weapons are not heavily penalized; however, Daggers provide the poorest performance.

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Ciderhelm. If we are to assume Devastate damaged based threat also scales with the 1.45 multiplier, would it not require 139 Damage on Devastate to cause more threat? Additionally, 189 Damage to be more Rage efficient?

Boot

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Q u o t e:
Keep the updates coming!

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Yeah it's warrior 101 for Tseric, I imagine he's learning alot.



lol couldn't resist

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Q u o t e:


Ciderhelm. If we are to assume Devastate damaged based threat also scales with the 1.45 multiplier, would it not require 139 Damage on Devastate to cause more threat? Additionally, 189 Damage to be more Rage efficient?

Boot

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Show me your math. Keep in mind that Sunder is 301 Threat by current testing, Devastate is 101, and that both get the 1.45 modifier. I may have made a mistake here; I made a quick calculation in my head writing that. Show me how you are coming up with the numbers.

Excellent beginning for a guide, I like your style of presentation and the usefulness of the info you present.

A couple notes:
-Mages recent got their threat reduction talents nerfed to 10% as an earlier reply pointed out
-Rogues/Cats have a 71% multiplier as of patch 1.12, not 80% as you list
-You hint at it, but you may want to make special mention of heroic strike not being on the global cooldown, so that you can use it to burn rage without interfering with your slam/revenge/sunder cycle. Biggest shortcoming of new/uninformed tanks in my opinion.

Also to contribute to the stam/armor vs avoidance debate, I find that time-to-live between heals is the most important aspect for a tank, aside from removing crits from the table. Maximizing TTL will keep you alive long enough to survive your healer getting stunned or going out of mana, and gives him the ability to use his most efficient heals. When I crunch the numbers this way, stamina = defense rating = 18 armor. This changes with different levels of gear (or imbalanced gear) but not as much as you might think.

(Posting on my rogue but also have a 70 prot warr)

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Q u o t e:
Show me your math. Keep in mind that Sunder is 301 Threat by current testing, Devastate is 101, and that both get the 1.45 modifier. I may have made a mistake here; I made a quick calculation in my head writing that. Show me how you are coming up with the numbers.

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I made the assumption that the threat values were scaled for defensive stance. As per your recent post, I would then assume I recieve 436 threat from 1 sunder while in defensive.

Boot

Fantastic warrior guide there, Ciderhelm.

This definitely gave me a lot of insight on the inner mechanics of tanking as a warrior.

My hat's off to you, sir.

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Q u o t e:
Excellent beginning for a guide, I like your style of presentation and the usefulness of the info you present.

A couple notes:
-Mages recent got their threat reduction talents nerfed to 10% as an earlier reply pointed out
-Rogues/Cats have a 71% multiplier as of patch 1.12, not 80% as you list
-You hint at it, but you may want to make special mention of heroic strike not being on the global cooldown, so that you can use it to burn rage without interfering with your slam/revenge/sunder cycle. Biggest shortcoming of new/uninformed tanks in my opinion.

Also to contribute to the stam/armor vs avoidance debate, I find that time-to-live between heals is the most important aspect for a tank, aside from removing crits from the table. Maximizing TTL will keep you alive long enough to survive your healer getting stunned or going out of mana, and gives him the ability to use his most efficient heals. When I crunch the numbers this way, stamina = defense rating = 18 armor. This changes with different levels of gear (or imbalanced gear) but not as much as you might think.

(Posting on my rogue but also have a 70 prot warr)

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I don't doubt that there has been a change to Rogues and Cat-Form Druids, but I would need to see the source of your information before I change that. It was very easy for me to correct the Mage one as I had tactile information (a Mage talent tree) to work with.

I absolutely agree with the need to understand Heroic Strike. This has been one of the major sticking points of the last two guides I have written for the Warrior forums. I am working on pulling this together in the most efficient manner possible, but it will be similar to the section produced for the last guide.

I agree with Time-To-Live assertion. Again, I will be pulling from the prior guide.


//Edit: Have made several updates to current information posted in this guide. Will be adding Macros/Keybinds section immediately.

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Q u o t e:
I don't doubt that there has been a change to Rogues and Cat-Form Druids, but I would need to see the source of your information before I change that.

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It's the value kenco uses for KTM (I looked at the code source). My personal experience with my rogue is that KTM is quite accurate.