Proposals changes for TBC: http://talents.utimer.ppvh.eu/?p=vt&i=43723&link=yes

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GENERALS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
-Now while the player is dual wielding, it increases the chance to Parry melee attacks by 30% of its normal Parry chance.
/*This mean that if a have 10% of Parry chance, I'll have 13% while Dual Wield. Of course this also affect Rogues, Hunters, Shamans and Death Knights, this is to give a bit more survivability to DW classes, and by common sense.*/

-The Death Wish/Sweeping Strikes and Imp. Intercept/Weapon Mastery swaps has been reverted.
/*Why this in first place? Why do you try to test (no offense)? If with DW and Imp. Intercept, Arms Warrs will spec to Endless Rage?*/

-Retaliation, Recklessness and Shield Wall abilities cooldowns reduced to 20 mins each.

-Tactical Mastery threat bonus effect to Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst has been removed. Now the bonus threat is applied directly to Mortal Strikes and Bloodthirst abilities while Defensive Stance.
/*Why? There are no enough talents points for Arms/Fury warrs to get TM*/

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ARMS ABILITIES<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
-Mocking Blow now increases melee dmg by 15(Rank 1), 30(Rank 2), ..., 90(Rank 6) .
/*Why? Because I consider that 114 dmg at lvl70 every 2min is nothing, the threat and taunt is great but come on*/

-Hamstring (and Wing Clip) is now just one rank and it will cause dmg equal to a 7% of your attack power.

-Rend now cause 10% of your attack power plus the dmg bonus per rank and last for 20 seconds and can be used in all stances.
/*This mean that Rend rank 8 will cause: 182(<-dmg bonus) + 10% AP. About the stances, I dont get why it cant be used in zerker? Is a aggressive ability.*/

-Rend and Deep Wounds no longer remove Intimidating Shout effect.
/*This is stupid, if locks/priest cant break their fears with theirs dots, why we do?*/

-Thunder Clap now cause 10% of your attack power plus the dmg bonus per rank.
/*Same as Rend*/

-Thunder Clap critical strike chance is now aplied to melee chance instead of spell chance.
/*Why this has been no fix it yet?*/

-Retaliation charges removed, its effect will last until fades. And the animation will last for only 2 seconds.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ARMS TALENTS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
-Imp. Rend (2 points) now increases the bleeding damage caused by 50/100% and duration by 25/50%.
/*This plus the change on the ability will worth put the talents points, mostly for Prots.*/

-Two Handed Weapon Specialization renemaed to “Arms Specialization”, and now increases the damage dealt with all melee weapons by 1/2/3/4/5%.
/*Why? The Arms by definition (and like its own name said) teach the warrior how to use a weapon, not only for 2H weapons*/

-Sweeping Strikes can be used in all stances. Charges reduced to 5 and duration increased to 20 secs.
/*If Death Wish and Concussion Blow can be used in all stances, why SS dont?*/

-Weapon Mastery now increases 2/5% your attack speed, reduces the chance for yours attacks to be dodged and parried by 2/4% and the disarm reduction effect remains equal.
/*Like its own name said, Weapon Mastery gives the absolute knowledge to the warrior about wield a weapon, thats why I suggest to add the haste effect and the reduction parry chance*/

-Imp. Disciplines (2 points) now reduces the cooldown of Retaliation, Recklessness and Shield Wall by 2/4 mins and increases its durations by 2/5 seconds.
/*To be honest, I still think that with those changes nobody will put 2 points here, but we got to make Arms tree more atractive :P*/

-Imp. Mortal Strike now gives an additional effect to the ability according to your specialization (Poleaxe, Mace or Sword), the cooldown reduction effect remains equal.
/*Why? Because I'll like to see more variety on specializations to Arms Warrs more than only an Axe/Mace/Sword*/

-*NEW TALENT* Mighty Warrior (Requires 40 point on Arms Tree, in replacement of Endless Rage): When you enter in combat, cause damage or if you are being attacked you have 5% to enter in a Mighty state according to your specialization :

<I wont paste the tooltip because is a bit long, check the link at the begining>

This effect last for 30 seconds and cannot occur more than once every 1 minute. While you are in this state, yours attacks cause 20% less threat while you are out of Defensive Stance.
/*This is my proposal to the 41 Arms Talent; a PvP/PvE talent, like Mortal Strike*/

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FURY ABILITIES<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
-Commanding Shout has been renamed to “War Shout”.
/*Why? “Commanding” sound more like an Arms name*/

-The change on War Shout has been reverted, now it works like previous to the patch 2.1.0 but now have 45 secs of cooldown.
/*This nerf is unnecesary and extremely unfair. Yes, I know that Warrs are a bit OP, but if we get reals deep talents so all the hybrids spec go away, this shout should work like before*/

-Battle Shout and War Shout durations increased to 5 minutes each.
/*2 mins is too short*/

-Intimidating Shout now have 2 min of cooldown.
/*3 mins is too long*/

-Intercept now is one rank and cause dmg equal to a 10% of your attack power.

-Pummel (and Kick and Earth Shock and Counterspell) now have 1 second of global cooldown and now is just one rank and cause dmg equal to a 10% of your attack power.
/*If we take them off of the global cooldown, it will be OP. Reducing them to 1 sec is more rasonable*/

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FURY TALENTS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
-Booming Voice now increases the area of effect and duration of your Battle Shout and War Shout by 100% and increases the area of effect and duration of your Demoralizing Shout, Intimidating Shout and Challenging Shout by 50%.
/*Like the name said, this talent should affect all the shouts*/

-Cruelty additionaly have the effect of Presicion but increased (5% of hit and crit).
/*I know this sound OP, but: 1.- This will not only help Fury, but Arms and mostly Prots. 2.- Warrs are the class with less hit% via talent and the gear for it lacks for crits.*/

-Commanding Presence has been renamed to “Warcry”.
/*Same as Commanding Shout*/

-*NEW TALENT* Aggressive Dexterity (5 points. Requires 15 points in Fury Tree, in replacement of Dual Wield Specialization): Increases the damage done and rage generated by your offhand weapon by 25% and decreases the casting time of your Slam ability by 1 sec.
/*Why? Fury Tree IS NOT ONLY for dual wield warrriors. Period. Since The Untamed Blade was implemented, 2H Fury Warrs cause a decent amount of dmg/DPS. Thats why I mix Dual Wield Spec. with Imp. Slam. Besides, with "imp. Slam" reachable for a PvE 41/20 Arms spec, that will make them more versatile in pve dps than just bring Blood Frenzy.*/

-Blood Craze now is 2 points but require 20 points in Fury Tree plus 5/5 on Enrage, and give 1/2% of your total health per second over 5 seconds after being the victim of a critical strike.
/*This is not OP because Arms Warrs cant get this (assuming that there is a better 41 talent O_o)*/

-Flurry now give 30% increased attack speed and require 5/5 on Aggressive Dexterity.
/*This nerf is unnecesary and extremely unfair. Like casters, there is no a baseline melee dps class on this game, Rogues can be outdpsing by Warrs, Hunters, Enh. Shammys and Retris Palas, and viceversa. Nerfing a class with the excuse that “Is causing more dps that X class” is unfair, illogical and stupid.*/

-*NEW TALENT* Improved Pummel (2 points. Require 30 points in Fury Tree, in replacement of Presicion): Allows your Pummel ability to increase the casting time of your enemy by 10/20% and if you hit a critical strike with your Pummel ability, it will silence the enemy by 0,7/1,5 sec.
/*This is to increase the viability in PvP for Fury*/

-Bloodthirst healing effect has been increased greatly.
Rank 1<lvl 40>: 40 of health. (200 five ticks)
Rank 2<lvl 48>: 70 of health. (350 five ticks)
Rank 3<lvl 54>: 100 of health. (500 five ticks)
Rank 4<lvl 60>: 130 of health. (650 five ticks)
Rank 5<lvl 66>: 160 of health. (800 five ticks)
Rank 6<lvl 70>: 190 of health. (950 five ticks)
Rank 7<lvl 77>: 220 of health. (1100 five ticks)
Rank 8<lvl 80>: 250 of health. (1250 five ticks)
/*The healing effect on Bloodthirst plus the change on Rampage and Blood Craze and the new Imp. Pummel, is the answer to a PvP viability for Fury Warrs*/

-Rampage has been changed. It can be trigger by any Bloodthirst critical strike and each stack give attack power based on your Strength.
/*This mean: 1.- Is passive, every BT crit will activate it or renew it. 2.- Each charge will give 20% of your STR in AP while outdoors and 15% while indoors, meaning 100% in outdoors and 75% in indoors. This is the change that this talent need, making it passive and scalabe. And this also will make Fury more viable in PvP*/

NOTE: Protection suggestions here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=71649679&postId=34658558851&sid=1#75

NOTE: Here is my suggestion for the WotLK talents: http://talents.utimer.ppvh.eu/?p=vt&i=39185

I love the 1 str for 3 atk pwr, although it will never happen :P

/bump

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Q u o t e:
4.- Now your Bloodthirst will cause 50% of your Attack Power.

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Q u o t e:
5% more wont fix problems, I would liek to see the heal part scale with gear tho.

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See my Bloodthirst idea in the talents of Suggest 1.

reading through that talent tree made me feel as happy and amazed as when i play around with other classes' talent calculators >_<

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Q u o t e:
Hello there; Like the title says, this is my review:

Suggest 1

*General;
1.- Piercing Howl now affect the damage bonus of Heroic Stike rank 10-11.

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Interesting but not really seeing the value add here.

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Q u o t e:
2.- Improved Disciplines removed. Now Retaliation, Recklessness and Shield Wall have 15 min of cooldown.

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Agreed

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Q u o t e:
3.- Stance Mastery removed. Tactical Mastery is now trainable:
Lvl10 -> 9 rage retain.
Lvl15 -> 18 rage retain.
Lvl20 -> 25 rage retain.

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Keep in mind warriors now keep 10 rage without TM. This change would probably require this base amount be removed. Granted this is a good suggestion but the rage range would likely need to be spread out more over the levels.

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Q u o t e:
*Skills;

**Arms:
1.- Retaliation now make you inmune to stun effects.

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Agreed. It should also not have the visible aura. As is its the only ability I know of that allows an opposing player to simply negate it by disengaging/using CC until it wears off.

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Q u o t e:
**Fury:
1.- Berserker Stance now give 6% chance to critcial strike.
// Why? because i consider +10% dmg taken to high for only 3% crit strike

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Agreed the crit%-extra damage is out of balance. 10% for 5% or 6% for 3% is more reasonable.

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Q u o t e:
2.- Intimidating Shout now have 2 min of cooldown.

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Something needs to be done to this ability as it is the only reliable CC avail to warriors.

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Q u o t e:
3.- Recklessness now make you inmune to Horrified effects.

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For the drawbacks to using recklessness (additional damage taken on top of the extra damage in zerker) this seems fair.

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Q u o t e:
4.- Now your Bloodthirst will cause 50% of your Attack Power.

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If the other issues are addressed this could be too much. In a vaccum this might not be a bad idea. But with a balanced concept of warriors this is too much.

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Q u o t e:
5.- Whirlwind has been changed:
For 2H: No change.
For DW: Cause damage of each weapon (like Mutilate).
For 1H/Shield: Cause damage of weapon and shield (this damage is based in its armor).

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I do like the idea. It would also mean that WW would scale in all aspects based on weapons/shield :)

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Q u o t e:
**Protection:
1.- Revenge now increases melee damage (like Overpower).

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Revenge should simply be a straight unmodified attack. 100% weapon damage as normal.

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Q u o t e:
2.- The duration of Shield Wall is now the same of Recklessness and Retaliation, 15 sec.

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Amen

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Q u o t e:
*Talents

First, some of these ideas come from Biftek < Battousai > - Stonemaul, Vaer < Forge > - Thorium Brotherhood, and from Korica < Unforgiven > - Cenarion Circle, and me (:P)

http://talents.unleashedgaming.net/?p=vt&i=9809&link=yes

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Grammatical issues asside I really like some of the new talent ideas and the layout of the trees in general :)

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Q u o t e:
1.- Warriors now gain 3 Attack Power for each point of Strength.

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Again this would overpower almost ever warrior ability putting us back at square 1. This change would equate to a 133% change to all warriors damage output potential. 2 for 1 proved to be too much for hunters RAP, 3 for 1 would be entirely too much to deal with.

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Q u o t e:
2.- Warriors now gain 13 health for each point of Stamina.

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This would go a long way towards further reestablishing warriors as the "most resilient" and "most survivable" class. It would still mean mages are required to 2-3 shot us instead of 1 shoting us. But I'll take what I can get :)[/quote]

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Q u o t e:

3.- Stance Mastery removed. Tactical Mastery is now trainable:
Lvl10 -> 9 rage retain.
Lvl15 -> 18 rage retain.
Lvl20 -> 25 rage retain.

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Q u o t e:

Keep in mind warriors now keep 10 rage without TM. This change would probably require this base amount be removed. Granted this is a good suggestion but the rage range would likely need to be spread out more over the levels.

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I know that, that's is why i say Stance Mastery removed.

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Q u o t e:

Now your Bloodthirst will cause 50% of your Attack Power.

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Q u o t e:

If the other issues are addressed this could be too much. In a vaccum this might not be a bad idea. But with a balanced concept of warriors this is too much.

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I can agree with you, but only if they modify the healing effect, but REALY change it (150 HP every 6 six without count the time to get the 5 hit is nothing).

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Q u o t e:

Grammatical issues asside

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Sorry about that, i dont speak english very well.

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Q u o t e:

1.- Warriors now gain 3 Attack Power for each point of Strength.

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Q u o t e:

Again this would overpower almost ever warrior ability putting us back at square 1. This change would equate to a 133% change to all warriors damage output potential. 2 for 1 proved to be too much for hunters RAP, 3 for 1 would be entirely too much to deal with.

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Q u o t e:

2.- Warriors now gain 13 health for each point of Stamina.

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Q u o t e:

This would go a long way towards further reestablishing warriors as the "most resilient" and "most survivable" class. It would still mean mages are required to 2-3 shot us instead of 1 shoting us. But I'll take what I can get :)

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That is Suggest 2, only is Suggest 1 will make tooooo powerful warriors.

( )0( ) <========== Thats my review of warriors right now. I you cant guess what it is read the bottom of my post.





























Its an a$$ hole

/bump

So i didn't read the whole thing so sorry if i repeat anything. But i was tanking ST the other day in zerker stance (I know not the best way) but I was spaming WW the whole time. I usally had enough rage but what if in zerker stance we also got 10% more rage gen? That would be pretty sweet, on top of endless rage it would help out quite a bit. sure its only in one stance but the devs are only gonna meet us half way on anything we suggest anyway. Also what if challenging shout where to occupy the mobs for longer then six seconds, i was 2-handing the instance (yeah i know, but it was all i had) but with my ice barbed spear i was only getting off about two hitts, one normal melee and a WW. So say i was 1-handing that would be about four attacks, not that much if you ask me. If it was long enough for us to do some serious threat then maybe it would be easyer to hold aggro. now these suggesttions obviously won't help prot spec. warriors but they would add some versitility to what we spec in for 5-mans.

I agree with all of the changes I don't see that any of them are to much. Warriors are underpowered and I think that this could be that bump that we could use to make us as equal to the other classes as possible.

Too strong. Your changes would overpower us significantly.

We don't need such dramatic changes. All we need is :


13 HP per point of stamina
both incoming and outgoing misses, blocks, dodges, and parries generate a small amount of rage
Make thunderclap work in defensive stance and add an additional threat component to it in that stance


That's it! That's all we need to be viable but not overpowered. Fixes the rage problem, fixes the survivability problem, fixes the AoE tanking problem.

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Q u o t e:
and add an additional threat component to it in that stance

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Reed my Prot Tree suggest.

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Q u o t e:
Too strong. Your changes would overpower us significantly

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In some aspects maybe, but not at all. We need changes, improvements.

/bump

/bump

I apologize for spam, but i believe some of those are very goods ideas and they cant be ignore (for example the change on Challenging Shout and Berserker Stance) and want opinions.

http://talents.unleashedgaming.net/?p=vt&i=8786

I made these a while ago. Don't seem TOO overpowered to me =P

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Q u o t e:
http://talents.unleashedgaming.net/?p=vt&i=8786

I made these a while ago. Don't seem TOO overpowered to me =P

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I'm sorry, but that is an "Arms Warrior Review".

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Q u o t e:

2.- Improved Disciplines removed. Now Retaliation, Recklessness and Shield Wall have 15 min of cooldown.

3.- Stance Mastery removed. Tactical Mastery is now trainable:
Lvl10 -> 9 rage retain.
Lvl15 -> 18 rage retain.
Lvl20 -> 25 rage retain.

2.- Now Thunder Clap can be use it in Defense Stance.

3.- Challenging Shout now have 1min of cooldown.

6.- Whirlwind has been changed:
For 2H: No change.
For DW: Cause melee damage of each weapon (like Mutilate).
For 1H/Shield: Cause melee damage of weapon and shield (this damage is based in its armor).

**Protection:
1.- Revenge now increases melee damage (like Overpower).

2.- The duration of Shield Wall is now the same of Recklessness and Retaliation, 15 sec.

3.- The damage of Shield Bash is now modified by your Block Value.


2.- Warriors now gain 13 health for each point of Stamina.

3.- Warriors now gain 1% crit strike for 20 crit rating at lvl70.

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All of the above are great imho.

I think in those talents, the one I liked the most was imbued armor, where you got 30% of your melee damag reduction against spells.

That is badly needed. It is absurd how warriors just got owned by spell dmg, and the talent that gives you 6% for 3 pts is BS.