What has prevented me from modeling this trinket in the past has been the interaction of Improved Aspect of the Hawk with the haste proc from the Dragonspine Trophy. Thanks to Lactose I have a solution to that problem. I also would like to continue thanking Norwest for his IAotH uptime calculations. I was able to use the same exact equation to model the DST uptime.

I'm going to skip a lot of the uptime mathematics. The details behind it will be in the next version of the DPS spreadsheet, which will be released soon. I'm going to focus more on what we can generalize from the numbers. I am using a 1.7 ppm rate for the trinket, which seems to be the accepted value. I am leaving it user-provisionable in the spreadsheet, in case your personal testing indicates otherwise.

The following numbers are going to be derived from my own gear. I am at a point where I have just about the equivalent of T4 everywhere. I'm going to use the spreadsheet to generate Shot rotations and DPS numbers for these data points.

41/20/0 BM spec, 2.7s weapon (Don Santos), 0.2s latency/reaction time, 0 armor target

Normal speed Steady:Auto rotation cycles at 1.96s and does 1103.20 DPS.
Quick shots Steady:Auto rotation is 1.70s for 1268.68 DPS.
DST Haste Steady:Auto rotation is latency/GCD limited to 1.70s for 1268.68 DPS.
DST & QS Steady:Auto rotation is latency/GCD limited to 1.70s for 1268.68 DPS.

The uptimes for the different states are:
Normal - 20.68%, QS - 23.35%, DST - 26.28%, DST & QS - 29.68%
The averaged DPS is 1238.83.

The benefit of the Dragonspine Trophy here is to keep me in a hasted state longer than Quick Shots would alone. To give you an idea of the differences, here are the Rotation DPSs based on different talents/trinkets:
DST & 5/5 IAotH - 1238.83 (79.32% hasted state)
DST & 0/5 IAotH - 1196.85 (55.10% hasted state)
Hourglass & 5/5 IAotH - 1198.22 (49.49% hasted state, higher damaging shots from other trinket)
Hourglass & 0/5 IAotH - 1113.76 (0% hasted state)

The Dragonspine Trophy adds as much DPS as 5/5 IAotH for this setup.


41/20/0 BM spec, 3.0s weapon (Serpent Spine), 0.2s latency/reaction time, 0 armor target
Note: All other gear remains the same.

Normal S:A - 2.17s 1087.23 DPS
Quick Shots S:A - 1.89s 1250.32 DPS
DST Haste S:A - 1.70s 1395.9 DPS
DST & QS S:A - 1.70s 1395.9 DPS

Uptimes:
Normal - 20.57%, QS - 21.12%, DST - 28.77%, DST & QS - 29.53%
The averaged DPS is 1302.70

This weapon allows more of the DST's haste to actually matter. Because the DST works off of a ppm mechanic, rather than a straight percentage it is not hurt by slower weapons like IAotH is. Combined with being able to utilize the full haste benefit a slower bow results in more DST Haste uptime. Please note that the Normal and Quick Shot DPS numbers are lower for this weapon than the Don Santos, but the DST-haste numbers are much higher. Overall it pushes the total, averaged DPS a fair bit higher, making the slower weapon finally a true upgrade.

7/4x/y MM spec, 3.0s weapon (Serpent Spine), 0.2s latency/reaction time, 0 armor target
This is a much more interesting case study, as you can approach it from 2 different viewpoints. You can either decide to always use a 1:1 rotation, and ignore the haste effects, or use a 1:1.5 rotation when not hasted at all.

This is for the same exact gear I have, but changing talents to match the MM spec.

Normal 1:1.5 Rotation, 2.73s cycle (some clipping in this rotation with 0.2s latency) 1292.4 DPS
Normal 1:1 Rotation, 2.62s cycle 1129.99 DPS (replacing Steady with Multi when I can)
Quick Shots 1:1, 2.27s cycle 1263.52 DPS (replacing steady with Multi when I can)
DST Haste 1:1, 2.08s cycle 1390.67 DPS (replacing steady with Multi when I can)
DST & QS 1:1, 1.76s cycle, 1647.85 DPS (replacing steady with Multi when I can)

Uptimes 1:1.5
Normal - 26.85%, QS - 19.30%, DST - 31.33%, DST & QS - 22.52%
The averaged DPS is 1397.67

Uptimes 1:1
Normal - 29.00%, QS - 20.43%, DST - 29.66%, DST & QS - 20.90%
The averaged DPS is 1342.85

It seems like being able to take full advantage of all haste effects, combined with the higher damage-per-shot of a MM spec make this combination a true winner. Even dropping into a 1:1 Rotation for un-hasted periods allows the MM spec to do significant damage, and still maintain mana efficiency.

0/4x/y MM spec, 3.0s weapon (Serpent Spine), 0.2s latency/reaction time, 0 armor target
This is pretty much like the above spec, but without IAotH.

Normal - 1:1.5 1274.21 DPS
DST - 1:1 1371.12

Uptimes:
Normal - 46.92%, DST - 53.08%
Average DPS is 1325.65

Not as nice as having IAotH (and FF), but still a nice DPS jump when the trinket procs.


So, there you have it. It's incredible - for pretty much all specs. I use some pretty generic rotations in the numebrs above. I'm sure once people start looking at stuff like forcing 1:1.5 in QS as MM, and some other things (Arena S1 Xbow, etc.) they may find more benefit for specific circumstances.

I'll post any updates to this thread I find through additional testing, or if I find flaws in the model. If people really, really want I can post the math behind uptime calculations, but I don't think 99% of the people reading this care, as long as my numbers are accurate.

Yep Ive used the Imp hawk / DST hasted marks build in the past and it a powerhouse build.

currently BM since I like to switch between specs every so often to see how my gear has impacted.
(4pc Rift) for example.

Personally I cant wait to get a ranged weapon like Archimonde's bow and wreck as double hasted marks again.

Bumping for Cheeky. I really enjoyed reading this.

Unless it will take forever to type out, I would like to see the math for the calculations just so I can do a little experimenting of my own.

Thanks!

-Edit- I decided not to worry about the rotations too much.

bumping since some people will prob want to see this

Bump for justice. Awesome analysis and writeup. Bravo!

Thanks a lot, Cheeky. I've always been a big fan of your work as well as the other theorycrafters. This just makes me want this trinket even more than I did previously. Here's to hoping my rolls don't suck next time it drops :(

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Q u o t e:
Bump for justice. Awesome analysis and writeup. Bravo!

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Thank you, sorry it took me so long to get around to it!

Anyway, I now have it modeled in the spreadsheet. I have a feeling this version might be a bit buggy. I didn't have time to test all possible gear/talent combinations with it. But it seems to handle interactions with weapon speed, IAotH, latency, and shot rotations pretty well.

Please contact me if you find any flaws. I don't mind being wrong, but I hate being inaccurate (as regards to the spreadsheet).

Yeah it really is incredible.

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Q u o t e:
41/20/0 BM spec, 2.7s weapon (Don Santos), 0.2s latency/reaction time, 0 armor target

Normal speed Steady:Auto rotation cycles at 1.96s and does 1103.20 DPS.
Quick shots Steady:Auto rotation is 1.70s for 1268.68 DPS.
DST Haste Steady:Auto rotation is latency/GCD limited to 1.70s for 1268.68 DPS.
DST & QS Steady:Auto rotation is latency/GCD limited to 1.70s for 1268.68 DPS.

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Question, DST proc for me currently brings the auto shot time to exactly 1.5 seconds and i seem to be able to manage the rotation just fine despite.. however i have no points in IAotH and you seem to suggest it is possible to maintain a rotation with both DST & QS and a 2.7 weapon(i have wolfslayer), is that possible and if yes how?

Thank you very much for these numbers, i had wondered what the DST was like VS IAotH. going to try out the double haste marks build now oO

Bump for a good thread

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Q u o t e:


Question, DST proc for me currently brings the auto shot time to exactly 1.5 seconds and i seem to be able to manage the rotation just fine despite.. however i have no points in IAotH and you seem to suggest it is possible to maintain a rotation with both DST & QS and a 2.7 weapon(i have wolfslayer), is that possible and if yes how?

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You clip. Basically the theory (and math) is that clipping shots isn't bad if it is still faster than they would be unhasted. If you get your shot cycle down to 1.3s through haste you are probably better off forcing a 1.5s + latency cycle anyway, because of 2 facts:

- To get down that low you need a faster weapon, faster weapons have smaller auto shots than steady shots, generally.
- Almost no bow gets pushed down sub 0.8s where 2 autos to every steady becomes more DPS.

If you are managing a 1.5s cycle without clipping you have far better reflexes than I do. I can handle 1.7s with only occasional clips/clobbers, but I haven't tried any faster than that.

Are you aware of the upcoming stealth nerf to haste?

Could you please post this in the Rogue forum? Or at least R & D? I'm getting really tired of our weekly "OMG HUNTARD TOOK MY DST" rogue visit.

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Q u o t e:
Are you aware of the upcoming stealth nerf to haste?

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I am. The next version of the spreadsheet will have the adjusted rates of rating -> haste. It makes little difference for BM spec'd Hunters since they were effectively haste-capped anyway. It's quite a blow to MM/Survival Hunters.

If I'm bored I'll post an updated analysis here with the new numbers. :)

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Q u o t e:
Are you aware of the upcoming stealth nerf to haste?

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Nerf pretty much has ZERO effect on BM. Only effects the gains MM/Surv hunters get.

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Q u o t e:
Could you please post this in the Rogue forum? Or at least R & D? I'm getting really tired of our weekly "OMG HUNTARD TOOK MY DST" rogue visit.

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I can't really say that I care much about anything Rogues do. I appreciate the ones in my guild who help us kill stuff quicker, but as a community they don't mean much to me. I like Hunters.

If you have loot issues between Hunters and Rogues in your guild you need to address the problem there.

Post I did in another thread A LONG time ago.

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Q u o t e:

Haste Effecting Hunters
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=108414628&postId=1081863965&sid=1#9

Using Prince bow, Quiver, IAotH, Dragonspine usual speeds of diff scenarios are as follows, speed wise.
I didnt bother including rapid, since its only every 3 minutes, and you control the proc rate. I also do not have Abacus yet, which means I just keep Hourglass on.

2.90 = Bow
15% = Quiver
15% = IAotH
30.91% = Dragonspine

Just Quiver:
[Auto] 2.9 / 1.15 = 2.52
[Steady] 1.5 / 1 = 1.5 (No changes)

Quiver + IAotH:
[Auto] 2.9 / 1.15 / 1.15 = 2.19
[Steady] 1.5 / 1.15 = 1.3

Quiver + Dragonspine:
[Auto] 2.9 / 1.15 / 1.3091 = 1.93 (Rounded up very slightly)
[Steady] 1.5 / 1.3091 = 1.15 (Rounded up slightly)

Quiver + Dragonspine + IAotH:
[Auto] 2.9 / 1.15 / 1.15 / 1.3091 = 1.67 (Rounded up very slightly again)
[Steady] 1.5 / 1.15 / 1.3091 = 1.00 (Rounded up slightly)

Just for kicks, Quiver + Dragonspine + IAotH + RF:
[Auto] 2.9 / 1.15 / 1.15 / 1.3091 / 1.4 = 1.2 (Rounded up slightly)
[Steady] 1.5 / 1.15 / 1.3091 / 1.4 = 0.71

These haste numbers are why even as 5/21/35 I do a simple Steady > Auto, if I have a shadow priest or other high mana regen so I have excess mana I will throw in a Multi or Arcane to sub for the steady.

Even with the double haste procs, barring when I pop RF, there is no clipping, unless my latency gets bad, but I do use a basic Castsequence:

#showtooltip Steady Shot(Rank 1)
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/castrandom [target=pet, dead] null; [target=pet, noexists] null; [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/castrandom Lightning Breath

I dont know exactly how Steady Shot is effected by Hastes, but if someone informs me if its effected just like ranged speed, or if done differently I will go ahead and edit and throw in steady shot speeds above. I do know there is little to no clipping with my usual 90-120 latency though.


Add:
Just read a previous posters post saying that all haste are added to steady, except for quiver, the same way as auto attack, atleast I assume its the same. So the Steady shot times were added in the above math.

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And because of how combat potency works it gives combat rogues more yellow damage as well as white damage. Just another post I read before this where people act anti rogue.... to be fair you must be impartial based on class and more on who would benefit the most for advancing guild content. Unless its DKP then just bid on it.

/cheer and bump for Cheeky

Maybe now this will put to bed all of the whining Rogue posts concerning who should get priority on this drop.

EDIT: Cheeky (or anyone else who knows), is v26 the latest version of your spreadsheet? Thanks again for all of your hard work.