My explanation for Deflection is written right there: I have healers I trust, and my damage intake is low. We have done nearly all of Naxxramas with 13 healers, and in the last two months that has increased to 16, all of which are incredible, and all of which made the decision very simple. There are not many direct-damage fights in Naxxramas which genuinely threaten the main-tank -- Patchwerk, Thaddius, Loatheb are the only 3 in which 5 points in Deflection would be otherwise missed, and these are fights we've done w/ no problem in 2.0.
I am not recommending you do this! I am giving you my current build and reasoning behind it -- if you choose to follow suit or do something similar, that is a great thing.
Also, the 5 points in Anticipation vs. 5 points in Deflection -- Deflection is out of tree, as you know, whereas Anticipation is one of a very limited number of options to actually go down the tree.
Q u o t e:
Devastate scales with better weapons, but it doesn't hurt to practice tanking with it even if you do have a BLD like I do.
If you are main-tanking and have a very high rage intake, Bloodlord's Defender is actually very good (presuming you have the rage to Heroic Strike). Bloodlord's is really a perfect speed for a tank weapon, balanced for situations where you don't have alot of rage and situations where you do.
Gear alone does not make Devastate work. Your weapon isn't that huge an impact. Due to some (slightly miscalculated, but still fairly accurate) research, a tank using Bloodlord's would only be doing about 12% less threat than a tank using the best possible slow weapon for Devastates, Gressil.
Gear has an exponential effect on your character in terms of Fury or Arms DPS. As a Warrior, when you get more crit, more hit, more Attack Power, your DPS goes up not only with that but with more rage gained (partly mitigated by Normalization this patch).
But that isn't the same for tanking -- better weapons are good, but they don't change the ballgame.
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- You mentioned opening with a shield slam rather than sunders. I actually have attempted this a few times since the new patch, and I find that if the shield slam is resisted in any way I am left running around trying to get aggro any other means necessary (usually hoping that autoswing grabs aggro) I suppose it is an inherent risk with a good payoff if successful. Would it be better to open with a sunder and then a shield slam? Is it weapon speed dependent decision?
I do remember how much it sucks to have a Shield Slam missed at the start. On complex fights, I would continue to open with a Shield Slam, but on fights where people will be assisting in the first 2-3 seconds, I would say ... open with a Shield Block / Revenge combo starting, costing a whopping 7 rage, then throw a Heroic on top of that. The chance of a Miss affecting you with 2 different specials is much lower. Follow it up with a Shield Slam as fast as possible!
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if you're full prot and have no problem with aggro, this weapon is amazing.
Spineshatter is a great stats weapon. If mitigation was all there was in a tanks world, it'd be one of the #1 recommendations on stats alone. And if you have no problem holding aggro, you get no beefs with me or anyone. =)
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Also, Ciderhelm: Tell me what you think of my little theory:
I like the theory, but I also don't think we're hit too badly. Warriors are still topping the charts, just not for every fight. One thing about your theory -- it doesn't compensate for arguably the worst cosmetic addition to Alliance - Draenei Shaman totems look like they belong in Bed Bath & Beyond.
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In fact, I don't know why there is not a bigger outcry about the design change that is the biggest warrior nerf ever. They are changing the dungeons to empasise the tankign styles of hte other classes and turn us into closers. Its going to get to be really dicey to be a warrior in a 5 man and in raids I would expect to be alone and only tank big bosses.
I liked your post. One thing I'd say is that I've truly enjoyed tanking full instances in the Beta. Some instances were an absolute pain in the ass (disarms and stuns are arguably the most irritating things to deal with in a 5-man), but these were early on at level 60-62.
When you level in TBC, you'll find you take alot harder hits and get alot more free rage in 5-mans. My 5-man health last night in Steamvaults was 13k -- some new gear, some new buffs, but also a solid ~3k base health given for free over the course of leveling. Since the damage incoming equation doesn't change, you can be hit harder, be in less danger of dying, and have a whole lot more rage.
Dealing with tons of mobs is meat and potatoes. It's incredibly fun, as long as there aren't simply too many to handle.
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I hope you're not main tanking for your guild. -5% parry has to suck. What part of raid content are you guys on right now? Molten Core? Get deflection when you move to higher content, the amount of damage that mobs do when you get into BWL and AQ will be enough for you to do your own sunders and not need improved heroic strike.
Working on Kel'thuzad.
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Good post but beware, this is from a guy in DN gear with thunderfury and a great bunch of healers. Our MT has thunderfuy so I know how much threat he generates OT'ing for him. Not all of us are in that situation.
From yesterdays MC run I'll say devastate sucks if you have a bad tanking weapon, it just doesn't work properly. Anything less than a 50dps weapon imho is a waste of talent.
The response I'd give to this is that weapon isn't that big, as I have people without TF's doing fine on aggro as well. Also, Dreadnaught in itself is not much better than Might in terms of Devastate -- Strength/Attack Power values haven't changed too heavily.
I don't think a tank should have too much trouble getting very high Devastate values -- enough that it's much better than Sunder with most weapons. A tank will have much more difficulty getting an absurd Shield Block Value. But even with that said, aren't the raids I'm in scaled against the raids other tanks in other instances are in?
Also, if using a very low-damage weapon, consider Elixir of the Giants. It will effectively raise your weapon a tier in terms of damage output (and with faster weapons will have a bigger impact on Devastate).
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if you do the math, it isn't that amazing as a damage increaser. I have 220 block value without the talent, so 286 block with the talent, an increase of 66 block value. I guarantee 5% crit adds more threat over time than 66 more damage on your shield slam, assuming you have a similar quality of gear.
Like any class that deals with Spell Damage or Attack Power, there's a simple answer to this: increase it from both ends. Both crit and Black Value help your Shield Slams, right? So get both!
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I know devastate is a step backwards in threat/rage with my EoC. I'm not sure about your thunderfury, the calculation seems complicated. From your discussion about Noth, it sounds like you know that devastate is less threat/rage
Crul is actually one of the better weapons for using Devastate with, as it's high damage and balanced well in terms of speed.
In terms of Noth, the specific mechanic of how he blinks, much like Shazzrah, is the reason I was giving. Improved Sunder helps me save a rage reserve once I know aggro is locked and the raid isn't going to pull it off me. I continue to use that until a blink, making sure I don't use my Shield Slam or Revenge cooldowns (just imp sunder and, once at full rage, Heroics). This is simply an aggro mechanic to deal with his blink, where Improved Sunder is (to me) preferable to Devastate.
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Would you mind posting your layout/macros and a screenshot of your UI? My opinion is that using the right abilities is a good first start (you have helped many warriors in this area), but using revenge/shield slam the second they are available is also a big improvement.
Basic UI atm. :( once I make any serious changes to it I will post them. If anyone else has any great ideas UI's I'd actually love to know them.
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Shield Slam does some base damage+block value damage. The 30% boost only applies to the latter.
Yes, that is a more accurate way of saying it. =)
Each point of Shield Block Value is 30% more effective in what it does. The ability itself does not gain 30% damage.
