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Q u o t e:


Ok lets say that all of a sudden bliz decides that tanks need to use spirit to tank effectively. Wouldn't you be pissed?

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Make the analogy slightly more believable.

Your migitation is now majorly affected by strength. Also, the more stamina you wear, the harder it is to hit your target.

If this does go through this will hurt raiders in more ways than one. The first being that the efficiency of lifetap will cause a raiding lock to have to lifetap more. The second is I see no other way to make this viable other than if blizz re-did all of the warlock gear to favor more int rather than stam. If this happened, warlocks would have much less stam and health, and having to lifetap on top of this would just be disastrous on boss encounters where there is heavy raid damage. We would essentially be mages(who already have stam/health issues) lowering our health even more and endangering ourselves of being one shot by the next aoe or other spell that happenes to hit us.

TL;DR version, the new lifetap nerfs mana efficiency and survivability in a high end raiding environment.

And for PvP if they re-work lock gear to have more int because of lifetap, this will decrease our survivability vs melee classes dramatically, since our high health was one of our only means to survive.

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Q u o t e:
OK, per earlier requests, I'm going to redo these numbers in a couple ways:

1) I'll include Shadow Bolt spam, for comparison with the Incinerate rotation
2) I'll average in mana gems and evocation for the DPM comparison

Conclusions (Up here at the top for the "TLDR" crowd)

DPS
1688.02: Destruction/Immolate, Incinerate x 6, Life Tap
1581.84: Destruction/Shadow Bolt x 9, Life Tap
1404.84: Fire Mage/Fireball x 8, Scorch

DPM
35.51: Destruction/Immolate, Incinerate x 6, Life Tap
19.07: Destruction/Shadow Bolt x 9, Life Tap
18.00: Fire Mage/Fireball x 8, Scorch (Mana Gems and Evocation are accounted for)

Obviously, the Life Tap change does not break or even seriously hinder the warlock. Even if we assume Destro specs with less-balanced Stam and Int than the ones I used as examples, it won't skew the mana returns enough to drop DPM below the Fire mage.

It is equally obvious that Fire produces substantially higher DPS and ridiculously higher DPM than Shadow. It will still be worth using Shadow for ISB if the raid really needs higher mana returns from Shadow Priests (doubtful, given the change to Spirit regen) or with some raid makeups. Destro 'locks now have a viable choice between higher, vastly more efficient personal DPS (ideal for long fights) or lower, less efficient personal DPS that can, in some situations, provide more raid DPS and utility.

Even shorter version: In 2.4, you won't be able to maintain Shadow Bolt spam with as few Life Taps, resulting in a reduction of Shadow Bolt spam DPS. However, the changes to Incinerate and Emberstorm more than compensate, allowing for higher DPS and DPM using Fire spells with the new Life Tap than you could previously achieve using Shadow spells with the old Life Tap.


And now, the math

Let's figure a Warlock with +1400 damage, 99% hit, and 30% crit fully buffed. A similarly-geared Mage would have +1270 damage, 99% hit, and 34.7% crit (with excess hit rating converted to crit rating, and molten armor).

First, the Fire Mage for a benchmark. Let's assume this is an old-style 10/48/3 mage, for high efficiency, and he's got 11,000 mana.

Fireball
Base: 735
Gear: (3.5 / 3.5 + 0.15) * 1270 = 1461
DOT: 21 (3 of 4 ticks lost while chain-casting)
Avg: ((735 + 1461) * (1 + (0.347 * 1.1)) * 0.99 + 21) * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.03 * 1.1 * 1.05 * 0.949 = 4319.99
Avg Mana: (400 * 0.9) - (425 * 0.347 * 0.3 * 0.99) = 316.20

Scorch
Base: 333
Gear: round(1.5 / 3.5 * 1270) = 544
Avg: (333 + 544) * (1 + (0.387 * 1.1)) * 0.99 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.03 * 1.1 * 1.05 * 0.949 = 1767.82
Avg Mana: (169 * 0.9) - (180 * 0.387 * 0.3 * 0.99) = 131.41

Scorch needs to be recast on a resist, so average cast time is 1.5 / 0.99 = 1.515

Rotation Damage: 8 * 4319.99 + 1767.82 = 36327.74
Rotation Mana: 8 * 316.20 + 131.41 = 2661.01
Rotation Time: 8 * 3.0 + 1.515 = 25.515

Let's figure a 10-minute fight.

Evocation
Restores 6600 mana in 8 seconds.
We need to multiply damage output by 0.9867 to account for the lost DPS time.
Rotation cost is reduced by 25.515 / 600 * 6600 = 280.67.

Mana Gems
In 10 minutes we will use Emerald x 3, Ruby, and Citrine.
Average mana restored every 2 minutes: (2400 * 3 + 1100 + 850) / 5 = 1830
Rotation cost is reduced by 25.515 / 120 * 1830 = 389.10

Rotation Damage: 36327.74 * 0.9867 = 35844.58
Rotation Mana: 2661.01 - 280.67 - 389.10 = 1991.24
Rotation Time: 25.515

DPS: 35844.58 / 25.515 = 1404.84
DPM: 35844.58 / 1991.24 = 18.00


Now, let's look at the new Warlock Fire rotation with the changes to Incinerate, Emberstorm and Life Tap.

Incinerate
Base Damage: 527 + 132 = 659
Gear Damage: round((2.5 / 3.5 + 0.2) * 1400 = 1280
Avg. Dmg: (659 + 1280) * 1.3 * 0.99 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 0.949 = 3979.17
Mana: 327

Immolate
DD Base: 327
DOT Base: 615
DD Gear: round(2 / 3.5 * 0.3636 * 1400) = 291
DOT Gear: round(0.6364 * 1400) = 891
DD Avg Dmg: (327 + 291) * 1.3 * 1.25 = 1004.25
Total Avg Dmg: (1004.25 + 615 + 891) * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 0.949 = 4002.70
Avg. Cast Time: 1.5 / 0.99 = 1.515 (assumes a recast on miss)
Mana: 423

I'm using a warlock from my guild as an example, who has a little over 10K health and mana, so with the new Life Tap he should receive 1600 mana per tap (a little more, but this will do for the estimate). Let's assume he Life Taps every rotation. With a 2.25 second Incinerate cast, we can use Immolate, Incinerate x6, Life Tap. This ensures that every Incinerate gets the Immolate bonus, though we lose 1.5 seconds of Immolate damage; that seems preferable, however, to recasting it early.

Rotation Damage: 4002.70 + 6 * 3979.17 = 27877.72
Rotation Mana: 423 + 6 * 327 - 1600 = 785
Rotation Time: 1.515 + 6 * 2.25 + 1.5 = 16.515

DPS: 27877.72 / 16.515 = 1688.02
DPM: 27877.72 / 785 = 35.51


And now, Shadow Bolt spam. I will assume a generous average increase from ISB of 15% (75% uptime):

Shadow Bolt
Base Damage: 575.5
Gear Damage: round((3 / 3.5 + 0.2) * 1400 = 1480
Avg. Dmg: (575.5 + 1480) * 1.3 * 0.99 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.05 * 0.949 = 4218.25
Mana: 399

Now, let's assume we want this Warlock to achieve similar DPM to the Fire mage (about 18 DPM). We need to get his mana cost down to 4218.25 / 18 = 234.35. This means we need Life Tap to restore 399 - 234.35 = 164.65 mana per Shadow Bolt. We can easily beat that by casting Life Tap after every 9 Shadow Bolts, making for a Shadow Bolt x 9, Life Tap rotation.

Rotation Damage: 4218.25 * 9 = 37964.25
Rotation Mana: 399 * 9 - 1600 = 1991
Rotation Time: 2.5 * 9 + 1.5 = 24

DPS: 37964.25 / 24 = 1581.84
DPM: 37964.25 / 1991 = 19.07

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jsut starting but your math is flawed in one place already

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Q u o t e:
Fireball
Base: 735
Gear: (3.5 / 3.5 + 0.15) * 1270 = 1461
DOT: 21 (3 of 4 ticks lost while chain-casting)
Avg: ((735 + 1461) * (1 + (0.347 * 1.1)) * 0.99 + 21) * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.03 * 1.1 * 1.05 * 0.949 = 4319.99
Avg Mana: (400 * 0.9) - (425 * 0.347 * 0.3 * 0.99) = 316.20

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first 735 is a wrong base number for fireball when the base damage of rank 14 is 717-913.
the median of 815 is the correct number to use here not barely above lowest end of base damage.

next comparing the two without equal + damage numbers is retarded from the start. but i do see what you did. the extra 4.7 crit % on the mage. 4.7*28 + 1270 = 1401. still now your just adding an unreliable factor into the comparison ( crit)

next galnce makes me ask what exacxtly is your DPM? and how does mana emeralds affect damage per mana? i understand that tings like evocate and mana emeralds affect DPS not DPM. Also did you factor in master of elements in there anywhere?

also what are the bolded in the quote? i follow the rest.

reserved for future edit as i go through the rest

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Q u o t e:

735 = base damage
1461 = gear damage
0.347 = crit chance
1.1 = crit mod (ignite)
1 + (0.347 * 1.1) converts the crit chance and crit mod into a simple multiplier
0.99 = hit chance
21 = one tick of the Fireball DOT (the other three ticks are overwritten on subsequent casts)
1.15 = imp. scorch
1.1 = Fire Power
1.03 = Playing With Fire
1.1 = CoE
1.05 = Misery
0.949 = average damage reduction through partial resists against a level 73 boss (this affects every school except Frost)

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thank you for this.


but i wonder about your method of factoring in crits. Also you do realize a fire mage add 9% crit to fire alone which will be in addition to gear? critical mass + pyromaniac + ( maybe even combustion)

ahh screw it it aint worth me trying to keep up with your math. but thanks for posting it

your number seem to be pretty complete then, but let me add this since i notice you saw a scorch resist needs to be recasted, an immolate resist hurts lock fire rotation about the same

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Q u o t e:
DPS
1688.02: Destruction/Immolate, Incinerate x 6, Life Tap
1581.84: Destruction/Shadow Bolt x 9, Life Tap
1404.84: Fire Mage/Fireball x 8, Scorch

DPM
35.51: Destruction/Immolate, Incinerate x 6, Life Tap
19.07: Destruction/Shadow Bolt x 9, Life Tap
18.00: Fire Mage/Fireball x 8, Scorch (Mana Gems and Evocation are accounted for)

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Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

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Q u o t e:
It will still be worth using Shadow for ISB if the raid really needs higher mana returns from Shadow Priests (doubtful, given the change to Spirit regen) or with some raid makeups.

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Are the changes in mana regen realy going to be that dramatic? Are mages/spriests ever actually able to take advantage of spirit based regen? (I know arcane has the talent; but not aware of anything else for frost, fire or shadow priest). My understanding is that to gain any benefit from said regen you have to be outside the 5 second rule. Are offensive caster ever out? Or am i missing something?

balance druids with 3/3 intensity will probably be the DPS class that sees the most improved spirit regeneration.

well and arcane mages.


those talents efectively make 30% of spirit regeneration that you get outside the 5 second rule to be MP5 basically

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Q u o t e:
Crossposted




Reason number 1 is a fallacy. Why is STA a core warlock stat? Because of Life Tap. Specifically because of the way it worked before. This change to the way Life Tap functions removes STA as a core warlock stat.

Reason 2 is fixed with changing gear from STA heavy to INT heavy.

Reason 3...how is that a problem rather than just a change?

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Reason number one is not fallacy. Stam has always been a core lock stat. It shows in our gear. lock gear is heavy on stam in comparison to the other casting classes. In addition, if stam is not a core stat, why does our only talent which affects stats buff stam and decrease spirit.

Which leads to the other reason why this is a nerf. Lock regen sucks. End of story. Locks have no way to regen/replenish mana other than life tap unless they spec deep into the afflic tree for dark pact. They have no gems or evocate ability of mages, no water shield/mana totem of shamans, no invenerate of druid, or the mana regen of priest. Shamans, mages, and priests all have talents improving mana regen while casting at mid tree, and druids while having to go farily deep into balance to get the same, also have invenerate as mentioned above. Locks have zip.

While the degree of the nerf will vary by the build and gear of the lock, it is a nerf ranging from mild/moderate (for afflic locks with dark pact) to heavy (for demo locks especially).

the honest thing is yes it might be tweaked to be not that much of a change.

But they are dumb-ing the class down. I down rank Life tap alot based on teh situation, now i dont have to think just face roll.

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Q u o t e:


Now you know how Protection paladins with Redoubt, Reckoning, and Blessing of Sanctuary feel, I guess.

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Actually, if the paladin is smart, those never lose value once you hit uncrushable. If they're dumb and continue to stack dodge/parry long past the uncrushable marker, then sure, those talents scale inversely.





No half-decently geared paladin runs Reckoning anymore anyways. There's no space for it in a spec.

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Q u o t e:
Crossposted




Reason number 1 is a fallacy. Why is STA a core warlock stat? Because of Life Tap. Specifically because of the way it worked before. This change to the way Life Tap functions removes STA as a core warlock stat.

Reason 2 is fixed with changing gear from STA heavy to INT heavy.

Reason 3...how is that a problem rather than just a change?

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Your refutation for his first argument would make sense...If we could determine the amount of stamina on our warlock tiered sets. Unfortunately we cannot, and blizz has elected to put loads of stam on all of them, so stamina goes up as long as we wear them. The only solution to this is to wear mage-y items that are actually downgrates.

Again, we can't change all that stamina on our gear to intellect. If blizzard goes ahead and does it, then most raiding locks will be fine with the change.

It's a problem because our gear has very little int on it and a ton of stam. As much as your argument would make sense if we could just start wearing mage gear, we can't. Unless blizzard redoes the entirety of warlock itemization, the change is gamebreaking for us.

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Q u o t e:
Crossposted




Reason number 1 is a fallacy. Why is STA a core warlock stat? Because of Life Tap. Specifically because of the way it worked before. This change to the way Life Tap functions removes STA as a core warlock stat.

Reason 2 is fixed with changing gear from STA heavy to INT heavy.

Reason 3...how is that a problem rather than just a change?

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Read the bold. Thanks. They read itemized all of our teir 4-6 gear? w00t. Thanks no one told me, cause the way our gear is itemized now STAM is a core stat.

Well I think I'll stop using 5/5 demonic embrace, no point to having high stamina after all.