World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz!?!?

Mist

< Midnight >

Warsong

0. Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz!?!? 11/10/2006 07:58:03 PM PST

So, Kalgan, while you're here, relentlessly nerfing our hard earned weapons we haven't earned yet, why don't you talk to us about some of the upcoming changes with the rogue classes?

What's going on with +weaponskill and glancing blows? What about these crazy new armor values?

How about we talk about talents? Was Shadowstep nerfed for balance reasons, or for client performance reasons? Can we expect any new things in combat?

I'm really excited about our new itemization scheme, +AP and +agi on the same items, but what about updating our tier 2 and/or tier 3 retroactively, like you're doing for hunters. I know our stats didn't fundamentally change, but legacy hunter armor is now so much better than legacy rogue armor that its not funny.

[ Post edited by Mist ]

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Kalgan

Blizzard Poster

1. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 08:56:23 PM PST

Q u o t e:
So, Kalgan, while you're here, relentlessly nerfing our hard earned weapons we haven't earned yet, why don't you talk to us about some of the upcoming changes with the rogue classes?

What's going on with +weaponskill and glancing blows? What about these crazy new armor values?

How about we talk about talents? Was Shadowstep nerfed for balance reasons, or for client performance reasons? Can we expect any new things in combat?

I'm really excited about our new itemization scheme, +AP and +agi on the same items, but what about updating our tier 2 and/or tier 3 retroactively, like you're doing for hunters. I know our stats didn't fundamentally change, but legacy hunter armor is now so much better than legacy rogue armor that its not funny.

- +weapon skill was changed for a few reasons. First, it was "too good" point-for-point. However, we also made some slight improvements to +weapon skill to offset the nerf in order to maintain its use as the "best" stat you can get against a target 3 levels or higher than you, but not by as wide of a margin. In addition, we didn't want +weapon skill to affect glancing blows because glancing blows (along with crushing blows) are our sacrosanct protection against players fighting mobs they're simply not supposed to be fighting.

- Shadowstep range was reduced for client performance reasons, not for balance reasons. In my opinion, it still needs some functionality improvements, so you can probably expect it to get a buff one way or another relatively soon.

- No significant change was made to rogues that caused them to lose a large amount of AP or dps relative to their existing dps, so no change is needed to compensate. Hunters, on the other hand, would have walked into the expansion feeling very "nerfed" if we hadn't made the retroactive itemization change.

Rükk

< TEENAGE EMO POETRY S… >

Frostmourne

2. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 08:57:44 PM PST

i've been asleep, what was the change to shadowstep?

LLOLOLOLOOOOLOLLOLOOOOLLOOLOOOLLLLOLOOLOOOLOOLOOLLLLL

Zugzugz

< Dawn of Valor >

Spinebreaker

3. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 08:59:56 PM PST

Zugzugz - 60 Rogue
Xeresin - 60 Priest
Permafrost - 52 Mage

Elrosh

< VoA >

Korgath

4. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:00:11 PM PST

While you are here kalgan, can you explain what +weapon skills actually does now? It seem weapon expertise just isn't worth the talent points anymore after this change.

Oblivion embraces us all.

Barashin

Deathwing

6. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:01:28 PM PST

Q u o t e:

- +weapon skill was changed for a few reasons. First, it was "too good" point-for-point. However, we also made some slight improvements to +weapon skill to offset the nerf in order to maintain its use as the "best" stat you can get against a target 3 levels or higher than you, but not by as wide of a margin. In addition, we didn't want +weapon skill to affect glancing blows because glancing blows (along with crushing blows) are our sacrosanct protection against players fighting mobs they're simply not supposed to be fighting.

- Shadowstep range was reduced for client performance reasons, not for balance reasons. In my opinion, it still needs some functionality improvements, so you can probably expect it to get a buff one way or another relatively soon.

- No significant change was made to rogues that caused them to lose a large amount of AP or dps relative to their existing dps, so no change is needed to compensate. Hunters, on the other hand, would have walked into the expansion feeling very "nerfed" if we hadn't made the retroactive itemization change.

It looks like your avatar is having sex with something.

Agisz

Nathrezim

7. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:04:17 PM PST

Q u o t e:
While you are here kalgan, can you explain what +weapon skills actually does now? It seem weapon expertise just isn't worth the talent points anymore after this change.

I'd like to know, too. It sounds like it's been changed since we last got a report about its effect in the expansion.

Mist

< Midnight >

Warsong

8. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:15:50 PM PST

Q u o t e:

- +weapon skill was changed for a few reasons. First, it was "too good" point-for-point. However, we also made some slight improvements to +weapon skill to offset the nerf in order to maintain its use as the "best" stat you can get against a target 3 levels or higher than you, but not by as wide of a margin. In addition, we didn't want +weapon skill to affect glancing blows because glancing blows (along with crushing blows) are our sacrosanct protection against players fighting mobs they're simply not supposed to be fighting.

- Shadowstep range was reduced for client performance reasons, not for balance reasons. In my opinion, it still needs some functionality improvements, so you can probably expect it to get a buff one way or another relatively soon.

- No significant change was made to rogues that caused them to lose a large amount of AP or dps relative to their existing dps, so no change is needed to compensate. Hunters, on the other hand, would have walked into the expansion feeling very "nerfed" if we hadn't made the retroactive itemization change.

Can you possibly explain the changes to +weaponskill in greater detail? Its not noted in any current patch notes. Is it possible we could get a detailed explaination of the change, similarly to how Haste effect changes were detailed in 1.12? The only details we have right now are from logs, which are inconclusive at best. One other related issue to this is that Weapon Expertise seems remarkably weaker with the +weaponskill change, could it recieve a secondary effect similar to the Warrior version of the talent?

Also, you didn't mention anything about the Combat tree, I probably should have capitalized Combat in my original post to specify I meant the tree proper, not 'combat' in general.

Lastly, can I have a beta key, for asking good questions?

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Ellumyn

< Retribution >

Uldum

9. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:18:10 PM PST

ZOMG BLUE
Thanks for answering man. Thanks alot
you +1
Drysc -10

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Mist

< Midnight >

Warsong

10. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:19:01 PM PST

Also, thanks for Cloak of Shadows for all rogues, we ALL appreciate it, except for the closet Warlocks masquerading as Rogues. Was this change made specifically due to Arena playtesting?

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Mist

< Midnight >

Warsong

11. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:20:17 PM PST

Q u o t e:
ZOMG BLUE
Thanks for answering man. Thanks alot
you +1
Drysc -10

Kalgan is a lead developer, Drysc is a CM, not really in the same ballpark.

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Cpie

< Delicious Pancakes >

Magtheridon

12. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:20:58 PM PST

Q u o t e:

It looks like your avatar is having sex with something.

haha bumped for great justice!

kill yourself.
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Ayonae

Shadow Council

13. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:24:22 PM PST

hunters will have glancing blows too now, right? right?

Zanith

< Lost Boys >

Proudmoore

14. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:27:05 PM PST

Why would blizz nerf hunters like that?

Hunters are supposed to be able to solo elites several levels above themselves you know.

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Tyranna

< The Caliphate >

Emerald Dream

15. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:27:24 PM PST

Q u o t e:

- +weapon skill was changed for a few reasons. First, it was "too good" point-for-point. However, we also made some slight improvements to +weapon skill to offset the nerf in order to maintain its use as the "best" stat you can get against a target 3 levels or higher than you, but not by as wide of a margin. In addition, we didn't want +weapon skill to affect glancing blows because glancing blows (along with crushing blows) are our sacrosanct protection against players fighting mobs they're simply not supposed to be fighting.

Perhaps it was too good point-for-point, but you'll need a lot more than "slight improvements" to make up for it.

As it is now, +Skill on Live gives Rogues a needed edge against Fury Warriors (or at least those without the pesky racials). Warrior rage generation may have been nerfed, but they're getting a lot more DPS increasing talents than Rogues.

+Skill also is also the only way, for melees, of reducing level based "melee-resists". Calling it a Sacrosanct mechanic is extremely silly. Hunters don't get Glancing Blows, they only need slightly more +hit% against higher level mobs. Casters don't get Glancing Blows, they get white resists/misses, also mitigated by more +spell hit%, as well as yellow resists, which are reduced by Warlock curses to the point where there is no reason to use Spell Penetration gear against Bosses.

Melees are the only ones that need to deal with Dodge, Parry, Armor and Glancing Blows, and now there'll be no way to lessen the effect of Glancing Blows? That kind of discrepancy is just unfair.

[ Post edited by Tyranna ]

Hiarcs

< Poor Play >

Uldum

16. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:29:37 PM PST

Interesting post. This kinda makes weapon expertise crappy. Combat tree takes a hit but it's probably a good change overall, warriors using Edgemaster's Handguards in Naxx was just stupid, as was ACLG. Glad the stat is finally being addressed it has been ridiculously overpowered forever.

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Dâmien

< Eclipsed >

Dethecus

17. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:31:26 PM PST

Of course not, hunters will still get to pew pew things 30 levels above them and kite them to oblivion. Crushing blows? Nevar. That wouldnt be logical. Never mind the fact that a moving target 25 yards away is harder to hit with an arrow... than say... trying to hit a target 2 yards away a 4' broad sword. Nonsense. Only time a hunter misses is when he blinks.

Never quite understood that. Meh.

[edit]

Rant aside-

Is it safe to say that this could also be considered a nerf to those races that have +weapon skill? Is there any form of compensation being made for it?

[ Post edited by Dâmien ]

< Just Another Snake C… >

Malorne

18. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:32:55 PM PST

Q u o t e:
- No significant change was made to rogues that caused them to lose a large amount of AP or dps relative to their existing dps, so no change is needed to compensate. Hunters, on the other hand, would have walked into the expansion feeling very "nerfed" if we hadn't made the retroactive itemization change.

I've fought 41 point BM hunters on beta. I feel ZERO sympathy to that class as does everyone else on the beta server.

God mode comes to mind when fighting a 41 talent BM hunter.

If you all think paladin bubble was cheesy, wait till you get a load of BM hunters.

< Noctum >

Garona

19. Re: Kalgan: yur in r foramz, nurfin r swordz! 11/10/2006 09:37:30 PM PST

Q u o t e:

- +weapon skill was changed for a few reasons. First, it was "too good" point-for-point. However, we also made some slight improvements to +weapon skill to offset the nerf in order to maintain its use as the "best" stat you can get against a target 3 levels or higher than you, but not by as wide of a margin. In addition, we didn't want +weapon skill to affect glancing blows because glancing blows (along with crushing blows) are our sacrosanct protection against players fighting mobs they're simply not supposed to be fighting.

Any reason why kiting hunters dont suffer from this "sacrosanct protection"?

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