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Q u o t e:
Im guessing that the -10% damage from from def stance can be negated by the +10% damage from 1h spec. (not sure where the modifiers are actually calculated)

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Ah right, not sure how I forgot that. :p

I would expect Devastate to be normalized since most instant attacks are. As far as I know all attacks that explicitly say "weapon damage" are normalized; the only one I can think of that isn't is Hemorrage for rogues. But I guess we really need someone to test, for us to be sure. (Either that or a blue answer, but testing is much faster I'd think.)

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Q u o t e:
(repeating, of course)

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I see what you did there... :-p



VERY nice write up! Hopefully people can stop @%*#!ing about Devastate now <3

awesome work

I will spam it now.

i'd like to see the following weapons added and rated on the list:

iblis
hatchet of sundered bone
misplaced servoarm (proc should help on aggro gain)

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Q u o t e:
i'd like to see the following weapons added and rated on the list:

iblis
hatchet of sundered bone
misplaced servoarm (proc should help on aggro gain)

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If you are impatient... Cinder does show all the steps and methods he used to calculate the final numbers he gives. Anybody should be able to calculate the values for their own weapon of choice. Or, if you want, vary the other givens in his equations (%DR, AP, etc.) to see how things change. Its quite interesting, and a nice way for you to investigate the effects that adding or removing certain stats will have on your expected TPS and DPS.

Not that I was doing that. Nosiree. I was dutifully working in lab today like a good grad student and not theorycrafting gear upgrades for a BC prot build. Nope. Not me.

>.<

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Q u o t e:


Is end result ok beyond that? I did some copy & paste work to show the process.

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Edge of Chaos has +13 stamina, not +15 :P

Great write up bro. A little bit back I did a list including all weapons, but no devastate. Your comments about how good HS spam was and how julie's dagger made MC easy mode led me to doing the extensive study here http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=36894164&sid=1&pageNo=1

If you consider an infinate rage enviroment weapon speed will matter so much more then much of anything else. If you are wondering why the TPS numbers are so much lower on my listings it is because I left out the threat from revenge, sunder etc. I figured if you are trying to see how weapon speed effects threat, the normal rotation of sunder, revenge etc will be the same for any 2 given weapons.

As for doing the threat for thunderfury check out the EU sticky here

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=13071550&sid=1

it is where I got all my numbers from.

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Q u o t e:
Also, not all abilities are normalized; for instance Rogue Riposte is not normalized even though Sinister Strike is.

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Interesting. I assumed all instant attacks were.

I'm just glad to see tanks threat generation scaling a bit better with gear. Every bit helps!

Cider!

/hug]

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Q u o t e:
So here it is, in finality, with all factors included from Weapon Speed to cooldowns to Shield Slams to Revenge to Critical Strikes to Armor reduction...

The Ultimate Main Tanking Weapon Order

1. The Hungering Cold (TPS 638.73, DPS 407.46)
2. Widow's Remorse (TPS 615.72, DPS 391.745)
3. Gressil (TPS 575.56, DPS 396.14)
4. Crul'shorukh (TPS 573.35, DPS 382.67)
5. Bloodlord's Defender (TPS 573.12, DPS 366.42)
6. Maladath (TPS 566.68, DPS 372.53)
7. Castigator (TPS 566.23, DPS 384.32)
8. Spineshatter (TPS 551.25, DPS 369.34)

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You didn't really specify although you mention all factors... the numbers seem wierd to me are these post Dstance?

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Q u o t e:


You didn't really specify although you mention all factors... the numbers seem wierd to me are these post Dstance?

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No. This is without Defensive Stance, Defiance, One-Handed Specialization, etc., with Heroic Strike threat & damage added to the mix. Heroic Strike tanking (applying the ability to every attack and having the rage to do so) generally swings fast weapons way to the forefront in threat generation; they also have no counterbalance for slower weapons (i.e. faster is better in all cases no matter what with Heroic Strike).

Here is an example of the process I followed for each weapon (I only chose not to post this final step out of space-saving goodness):

Heroic Strike 9 -- 175 (+157 Damage) Per Application
157 * 1.15 * 0.8 = 144.44

Threat Per Application = 175 + 144.44 = 319.44
Damage Per Application = 144.44

The rate of application is what determines Threat-Per-Second and Damage-Per-Second; this is why fast weapons are so powerful, as each application comes so much sooner than it would with a slow weapon. So, per each weapon, here's how I determined actual TPS and DPS:

Gressil 2.7 Speed
(319.44 / 27) * 10 = 118.31
(144.44 / 27) * 10 = 53.49

The Hungering Cold 1.5 Speed
(319.44 / 15) * 10 = 212.96
(144.44 / 15) * 10 = 96.29


So for Gressil, adding the values for the final product:
Gressil (TPS 457.25, DPS 342.65) 2.7 Speed
TPS: 118.31
DPS: 53.49
Gressil (TPS 575.56, DPS 396.14)


And for The Hunger Cold, adding the values for the final product:
The Hungering Cold (TPS 425.77, DPS 311.17) 1.5 Speed
TPS: 212.96
DPS: 96.29
The Hungering Cold (TPS 638.73, DPS 407.46)



So beyond that... Why do the numbers seem weird to you? Low? High? Does this answer the question of process?

how well do you think devastate would do with a slow 2h wep? just curious

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Q u o t e:
how well do you think devastate would do with a slow 2h wep? just curious

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You can't use a 2 hander with Devastate. So the answer is "0"

Kel <wink>

What gear are tanks wearing to have 15% crit? Right now none of the dreadnaught pieces have any agi/crit. Mark gives around .5%crit, kings gives some too (as alliance)

15% crit is not an impossible achievement... and typically the less agi you have the more str you have, so the two criteria in the equations will balance out.

For the sake of argument, however, if you reduce the crit rate to 10% in the calculations (I'd be surprised if a tank can't manage to hit this mark), the unmodified threat values drop by 10-15 points, which still leave every weapon at or above Sunder's threat value.

What gear specifically? I have 6/9 T3, using an MT prot spec, (14/0/37), and have a crit rating of 5.60% (yes it doesn't even break 6.00% until I get my gloves enchanted in a little bit). I have only one piece of gear that gives agi, and it's the ring off the Twin Emps.

My gear: http://ctprofiles.net/1053081

Even with crappy gear, you have to have ~10% crit, unless you skipped cruelty for some reason.

Awesome post. I'm pretty much set to go prot when 2.0 hits now. I would guess that the dynamics of 5-man content will favor slow weapons heavily, as we cannot expect bosses tuned to 1 healer to put out enough damage to support constant HSing.

I'm convinced of the value of offensive statistics to tanks, but I'm not yet sold on Vitality. At my gear level, we're talking about 60 AP and 200 HP, and I would not give up 5% parry, 30% block/6% magic damage, or 5% crit for that. Maybe I'll spec it upon leveling up, but not initially.

I'm sorry if this sounds like smack-talk, but I saw this in the companion post on the beta forums:

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Q u o t e:
While threat is always important, sunder provides an increase in raid DPS, as well as your own. Devistate will never be useful because sunder should ALWAYS be your first priority after shield slams and revenges. By the time you have that full sunder stack, aggro should be locked and Devistate will be useless.

I suppose Devistate spam would be useful if another tank stacked sunder, but I think keeping aggro as a protection warrior with the usual rotation will still work fine.

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Ahem.

1) Devastate refreshes your sunder stack.

2) Devastate refreshes your sunder stack.

3) It also does extra damage per sunder - 25 * 5 at level 60. Therefore, sunder and devastate are meant to be cooperative abilities.

4) Nobody's ever pulled aggro off of you? Ever? Have you ever had a warlock in your raid?

5) You've never downed a boss with 2 or 3 people left, or had a 1% wipe where an extra 80dps might just have made the difference?

Is this guy seriously in the guild who did the world first 4 Horsemen? I mean, I'm sure he's a very good tank and is just poorly informed, but it astonishes me that you can get that far and not read a tooltip.