World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Changes to this "Progressive" patch?

Nethaera

Blizzard Poster

20. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:31:04 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Will we get the promised pvp class balance chages or no? Not asking what they are, asking yes or no, are they really planned for 2.4 or 2.4.x? Please don't give me a canned "we're always monitoring and improving the game as we go" answer either. Hate that crap!

We do have class changes planned for patch 2.4.0. Essentially, with the changes to classes in 2.3.2, we wanted to give the changes some time to see how they played out and we didn't want to put more changes into 2.4.0 immediately with all the other additions and changes we've made. We will be adding more though as we go along.

You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.
- Robin Williams
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
-Isaac Asimov

Shtaven

Bronzebeard

21. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:31:05 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Will you italicize or bold or do something to the additions so we can see them stand out from the original notes?

Also, will there be a notification that they were edited? You guys should really setup a wiki or sharepoint site for us on this, you know ;)

Some kind of noticfication is what I was hoping for.
something...anything... instead of keep looking over the patch notes for any changes.

- Xiaven <~~ My Main (70 warlock)

Q u o t e:
I'm beginning to think that gnomes as a component for siege weapons is a good idea. ;p
-Nethaera

Zikomo

< Habitual >

Arygos

22. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:32:10 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Just keep an eye on the notes. We'll be keeping them up to date as we go.

Suggestion, could you guys maybe bold the new changes? That way at a glance we can see the latest updates. I never really read the notes closely enough to notice small changes that may happen in a progressive patch.

6) Bug happens, and chaos ensues.

Shtaven

Bronzebeard

23. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:33:12 AM PST

Also, will just 1 change be added at a time
or
would a batch of changes be added at once?

Edit:
Thanks for the replies Neth.
We love you, well most of us

:)

[ Post edited by Shtaven ]

- Xiaven <~~ My Main (70 warlock)

Q u o t e:
I'm beginning to think that gnomes as a component for siege weapons is a good idea. ;p
-Nethaera

Robglobgurob

< Skillz That Killz >

Tichondrius

24. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:34:26 AM PST

the reason shaman aren't as powerful in TBC as they were in classic is because the strength of the spirits has been going down ever since WoW's initial release. I blame this guy http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=11140 for continuously killing off the shaman's source of power.

You will Suicide on our gates.
Governor William J. Le Petomane: We've gotta protect our phoney baloney jobs, gentlemen!

Starrynite

< midnight sun >

Arygos

25. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:36:13 AM PST

Q u o t e:

We do have class changes planned for patch 2.4.0. Essentially, with the changes to classes in 2.3.2, we wanted to give the changes some time to see how they played out and we didn't want to put more changes into 2.4.0 immediately with all the other additions and changes we've made. We will be adding more though as we go along.

It is a very brilliant strategy to do it this way so you get a lot more accurate data, but it is also counter to what you have done in the past so many get confused by it because in the past you gave all the notes upfront.

Now many are confused and are wanting the class changes. I guess it is to know who got the nerf stick and who didn't so they can either reroll or brag to everyone else about getting buffed or something. Anyways you can see why people are asking for the changes, but I must say I do understand the reasoning behind not giving them all out right upfront

Changes to Shadow Priests since Patch 2.0.1 to PTR 2.4:
Nerfs: 5
Buffs: 1 (Fear Ward + SF ?)
Minor Changes: 11
Bug Fixes: 3

Mcbeefy

< The Hellfire Club >

Baelgun

26. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:37:19 AM PST

Hmm... since a ton of us can't even copy over our charachters still...

Want to give feedback based on non-theory craft, but alas I can not.

"The stats don't show a lack of popularity for shaman, they just show a ridiculous popularity for other classes..." - Worst blue quote ever

Nethaera

Blizzard Poster

28. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:39:25 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Also, will just 1 change be added at a time
or
would a batch of changes be added at once?

Edit:
Thanks for the replies Neth.
We love you, well most of us

:)

We generally will add in more than one note at a time and try to batch them together. Sometimes we'll just add one, but it will be one we want to make sure gets in as soon as possible for people.

There isn't any particular way we can easily call out which notes are the newer ones without adding some extra work on that end, but there are programs that people can easily use to compare one set of notes to another if you aren't easily able to identify what is new.

Most times when new notes are added, people pick up on them fairly quickly and post about it.

You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.
- Robin Williams
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
-Isaac Asimov

Seigi

< Rotten Luck >

The Scryers

29. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:41:04 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Just keep an eye on the notes. We'll be keeping them up to date as we go.

Usually only about half, if that even, only gets recording in the released notes. There's dozens of blue posts about changes they are not in the notes at all but are live on PTR. Or it's kept secret until someone finds it, like the ghost wolf no tame thing. Overally the notes are pretty useless to keep an eye on. It's much more useful to goto the PTR forums and see what the players are recording as the "undocumented changes." You'll find a much more compreshensive list of changes with both the good and bad listed, not just the good. (Ex: drinking changes, opps were left out of the notes)

[ Post edited by Seigi ]

~Zenithan / Touma / Alondnar / Seigi

Kainazzo

< Shadow Syndicate >

Mug'thol

30. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:41:11 AM PST

Q u o t e:

We generally will add in more than one note at a time and try to batch them together. Sometimes we'll just add one, but it will be one we want to make sure gets in as soon as possible for people.

There isn't any particular way we can easily call out which notes are the newer ones without adding some extra work on that end, but there are programs that people can easily use to compare one set of notes to another if you aren't easily able to identify what is new.

Most times when new notes are added, people pick up on them fairly quickly and post about it.

So uhhh, use the same programs the players do? :)

http://wow.warcry.com
I'm not the next of them, I am the first of me.
Tseric, in short, Shamans have popped Enrage.

Zarintaj

< Refraction >

Bloodhoof

31. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:41:46 AM PST

Q u o t e:

We generally will add in more than one note at a time and try to batch them together. Sometimes we'll just add one, but it will be one we want to make sure gets in as soon as possible for people.

There isn't any particular way we can easily call out which notes are the newer ones without adding some extra work on that end, but there are programs that people can easily use to compare one set of notes to another if you aren't easily able to identify what is new.

Most times when new notes are added, people pick up on them fairly quickly and post about it.

Could you guys put revision numbers at the top of the patch notes? or even a date at the top? so we don't have to go through the entire document to check for changes :-)

Kainazzo

< Shadow Syndicate >

Mug'thol

32. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:44:55 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Could you guys put revision numbers at the top of the patch notes? or even a date at the top? so we don't have to go through the entire document to check for changes :-)

I think that's the best solution, and one any good software development company follows. Pretty standard stuff here Blizz!

http://wow.warcry.com
I'm not the next of them, I am the first of me.
Tseric, in short, Shamans have popped Enrage.

Shtaven

Bronzebeard

33. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:46:52 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Could you guys put revision numbers at the top of the patch notes? or even a date at the top? so we don't have to go through the entire document to check for changes :-)

Great idea!

Can we pretty please, with cherries on top, get something like that?
Please Neth, Please!

- Xiaven <~~ My Main (70 warlock)

Q u o t e:
I'm beginning to think that gnomes as a component for siege weapons is a good idea. ;p
-Nethaera

Nethaera

Blizzard Poster

34. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:47:35 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Usually only about half, if that even, only gets recording in the released notes. There's dozens of blue posts about changes they are not in the notes at all but are live on PTR. Or it's kept secret until someone finds it, like the ghost wolf no tame thing. Overally the notes are pretty useless to keep an eye on. It's much more useful to goto the PTR forums and see what the players are recording as the "undocumented changes." You'll find a much more compreshensive list of changes with both the good and bad listed, not just the good. (Ex: drinking changes, opps were left out of the notes)

This isn't necessarily true. There are times when notes don't make it in through design (things we want people to discover on their own), but that is not the norm and is usually in regard to some fun touches we've added.

Some things can get missed, it's inevitable with so many changes that go in, and many other things that people believe are 'missing' notes have been through a belief that others have created (Onyxia deep breaths more).

While I understand you want to be dismissive over the notes, it doesn't make them useless. I've seen more than one conversation come up based on the notes when they've been published, so they can't be all that useless now can they?

You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.
- Robin Williams
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
-Isaac Asimov

Seigi

< Rotten Luck >

The Scryers

35. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:47:40 AM PST

Q u o t e:

I think that's the best solution, and one any good software development company follows. Pretty standard stuff here Blizz!

Considering how all the bad things in a patch never make it to the notes, and every patch players themselves have to make huge undocumented changes posts, documentation while an industry standard clearly isn't a Blizzard strong suite.

~Zenithan / Touma / Alondnar / Seigi

Troodi

Maelstrom

36. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:50:53 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Could you guys put revision numbers at the top of the patch notes? or even a date at the top? so we don't have to go through the entire document to check for changes :-)

Just a date posted at the top when it was last updated is all that is needed. And with time, am/pm, too would be helpful.

* * * *

Seigi

< Rotten Luck >

The Scryers

37. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:50:59 AM PST

Q u o t e:

This isn't necessarily true. There are times when notes don't make it in through design (things we want people to discover on their own), but that is not the norm and is usually in regard to some fun touches we've added.

Some things can get missed, it's inevitable with so many changes that go in, and many other things that people believe are 'missing' notes have been through a belief that others have created (Onyxia deep breaths more).

While I understand you want to be dismissive over the notes, it doesn't make them useless. I've seen more than one conversation come up based on the notes when they've been published, so they can't be all that useless now can they?

You're right, they're not all useles.s They're more the shiny bright side of the patch. One or two sprinkled smaller bad changes and all these wonderful new things. As I said the big changes that players would react to almost always get left out "accidentally" or otherwise. I notice the change to drinking mechanic didn't make it, I'd be amazed something that would of taken more then a minor code change just fell throught he cracks. Must be the same crack that all the other nerfs fall into. I remember as far back as when things like hunter shots magically got a cooldown between patchs and it got left out.

[ Post edited by Seigi ]

~Zenithan / Touma / Alondnar / Seigi

Nethaera

Blizzard Poster

38. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:51:13 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Considering how all the bad things in a patch never make it to the notes, and every patch players themselves have to make huge undocumented changes posts, documentation while an industry standard clearly isn't a Blizzard strong suite.

This is your perception. I've seen many 'undocumented' changes also not actually exist before as well. Perception is a powerful thing.

While I don't claim perfection, we work very hard to put these together and continue to do so with every patch.

Also, these are the Test Patch notes currently. They are not complete. If you are seeing things that are missing from them, they have yet to be added into the notes, but will be.

[ Post edited by Nethaera ]

You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.
- Robin Williams
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
-Isaac Asimov

Mordldred

< Corporation >

Archimonde

39. Re: Changes to this "Progressive" patch? 02/13/2008 08:51:32 AM PST

neth, i added a constructive post about the spirit buff and its detriment to shaman in that progressive 2.4 constructive criticism thread i made that you been in over on the shaman forums

just wanted to give you the heads up

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