This going to be good, maybe shoulders and gloves of T5 since the damage upgrade to T6 in those slots aren't that great. Then 4 T6 pieces so you have

20% Arcane Blast improvement
5% Arcane Missle buff
T6 crit/hit/damage top quality.

GCD haste buff insane during IV/Berserkering/Bloodlust/AB debuff spamming? maybe not even use AM at all?
Thoughts?

Sounds reasonable

the dps loss of not taking advantage of non-tiered gear in Sunwell is going to hurt..alot


obv it probly wont make up for the 20% to AB youd get from 2/5 tier 5....but youd begin to fall alot farther behind the fire and frost mages getting 4/8 tier6 and picking up some of the goodlie sunwell off pieces

so is there any rumor about the 8 tier 6 bonus set?

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Q u o t e:
the dps loss of not taking advantage of non-tiered gear in Sunwell is going to hurt..alot


obv it probly wont make up for the 20% to AB youd get from 2/5 tier 5....but youd begin to fall alot farther behind the fire and frost mages getting 4/8 tier6 and picking up some of the goodlie sunwell off pieces

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Its actually quite logical to do. There is a good few posts on the EJ mage thread, think on page 107-111 or so, where it talks about the potential of this kind of spec/gear. With the extreme lack of hit on the sunwell gear it would be really something to try.

Yes there is a lot of talk about this...

I'm much more inclined to think 40/0/21 will be the spec to be though.
49/12 is a great spec to play until you get rid of spellfire. 40/0/21 has higher damage possibilities though as well as significantly less mana usage. (~150~ less per rotation is is like 45mp5 gained)..

Fbx3 is higher damage than AM/Scorch, and the 5% frost bonus will magnify that even more. More than likely t5 gloves and shoulders will be the way to go.

If you can get enough haste to get between 225 and 250 haste rating I ponder 40/18/3 with Abx3/Fireballx3 as the rotation. But I'm inclined to think that with high crit percentages (43% raid buffed considering moonkin and ret paly for me) that because of the 100% crit damage and 50% crit damage from frost, that 40/0/21 will be the way to go.

There is of course still the hit discussion.. But replace my icon with skull of guldan and I'll be dang near hit capped with 2t5 4t6... So.. It's all going to be interesting to plug into the spreadsheets.

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Its actually quite logical to do. There is a good few posts on the EJ mage thread, think on page 107-111 or so, where it talks about the potential of this kind of spec/gear. With the extreme lack of hit on the sunwell gear it would be really something to try.

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isnt that mainly for an ARcane/frost build.. using AB's and frostbolt rotations? WITH a frost mage in raid keeping up WC.

Im guessing 4 pieces of T6 + Sunwell robe + other ( Illidan helm ?)
2 p T5. Shoudlers? Gloves?

ANd.. remember... you have to get INTO sunwell 1st. Im sure a few will get these combos and let us know right away.

If you're willing to gimp yourself, your gear, and your raid by equipping two pieces of T5 instead of obtaining the vastly superior off pieces while maintaining the vastly superior spec, by all means.

You can also wear this set with the normal firebuild which contains Molten fury, at 20% just spam AB since MF works with all spells for the 20% bonus which will give you 7-9k crits but at a 1.5 castime and possibly lower given the change to the haste modifer.

This should already be common knowledge but refreshing it for other mages who havent experienced the power of the Arcane mage during its prime.

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If you're willing to gimp yourself, your gear, and your raid by equipping two pieces of T5 instead of obtaining the vastly superior off pieces while maintaining the vastly superior spec, by all means.

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Come, now. The Sunwell loot is hawt and all, but I doubt any two particular offset pieces are greater than +20% to AB.

I beg to differ. Arcane Blast's scaling (or lack thereof) puts a flat linear increase on the spell's output. No matter what talent points you have, Arcane Blast will do the same amount of damage. The 2-piece increases that number by 20%. However, this is a flat increase, not a coefficient improvement. Thus, two pieces of Sunwell off-set, which quite obviously have vastly superior stats, will give Fire or Frost a much higher benefit than it would to someone who chooses to wear T5.

All in all, you can do so if you wish - just keep in mind that by using T5, you are in fact lowering your potential dps by quite a bit.

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I beg to differ. Arcane Blast's scaling (or lack thereof) puts a flat linear increase on the spell's output. No matter what talent points you have, Arcane Blast will do the same amount of damage. The 2-piece increases that number by 20%. However, this is a flat increase, not a coefficient improvement. Thus, two pieces of Sunwell off-set, which quite obviously have vastly superior stats, will give Fire or Frost a much higher benefit than it would to someone who chooses to wear T5.

All in all, you can do so if you wish - just keep in mind that by using T5, you are in fact lowering your potential dps by quite a bit.

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^ that

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I beg to differ. Arcane Blast's scaling (or lack thereof) puts a flat linear increase on the spell's output. No matter what talent points you have, Arcane Blast will do the same amount of damage. The 2-piece increases that number by 20%. However, this is a flat increase, not a coefficient improvement. Thus, two pieces of Sunwell off-set, which quite obviously have vastly superior stats, will give Fire or Frost a much higher benefit than it would to someone who chooses to wear T5.

All in all, you can do so if you wish - just keep in mind that by using T5, you are in fact lowering your potential dps by quite a bit.

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you are missing several of the arguments.

It isn't just about the 20% boost to AB vs the decrease in stats from 2 peices of T6 or better gear.It is also about the DEEp arcane talents. The other stuff you GET with arcane. It is a 41/0/21 build. Teh ability to dump mana at will. Teh extra hhit and TR you get. The clearcasting, sp, slow, and junk like that. THE BUILD, not the spell.


YOur frost bolts will take a hit to raw damage from 2P T5, even more from not getting deep frost talents. YOu also lose the WE. Frost bolts will also get a boost from spellpower, clearcasting cirts, AP'd IV, +POM. YOu are not just comparing the stats on 2 peices of gear.


That is the whole point of theorycrafting and is all based on the assumption that you WILL have another frost mage keeeping up WC. I havnt looked at the numbers, nor do i really care. All this is also under the assumption you HAVE the extra T6. SOmething not many mages will have for a long time. Till then, all you have is TC and there is nothing wrong dueling spreadsheets. We will all find out eventually if the numbers pan out.

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I beg to differ. Arcane Blast's scaling (or lack thereof) puts a flat linear increase on the spell's output. No matter what talent points you have, Arcane Blast will do the same amount of damage. The 2-piece increases that number by 20%. However, this is a flat increase, not a coefficient improvement. Thus, two pieces of Sunwell off-set, which quite obviously have vastly superior stats, will give Fire or Frost a much higher benefit than it would to someone who chooses to wear T5.

All in all, you can do so if you wish - just keep in mind that by using T5, you are in fact lowering your potential dps by quite a bit.

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go read the mage TC threa on the Elisit Jerk forums...like the other guy said starting at around page 107. There is a lot of discussion/debates going on. If it weren't even feasable I doubt they would be talking so much about it.

Not sure sure 2xT5 and 4xT6 is the right way to go for deep arcane.

As a deep arcane-fire mage, most of your damage should come from arcane blast. And this is even more so if you have proper support. You should be going 5-10 ABs between a filler of scorch and AM with AM on clearcasts. Also you don't need hit and crit as much as other specs since your hit cap is only 76 and your crit multiplier is only 175%.

It seems a shame to waste 4 gear slots on 4xT6 just to increase AM damage 5% when you could probably do much better for arcane going non-set epics in those slots to boost up your spell damage and in 2.4 maybe your spell haste.

The spec where I see going 4xT6 and 2xT5 might make sense would be an arc-frost spec that uses a rotation comprised of frostbolts and arcane blasts. However, even then you'd still probably do better just going deep fire.

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The spec where I see going 4xT6 and 2xT5 might make sense would be an arc-frost spec that uses a rotation comprised of frostbolts and arcane blasts. However, even then you'd still probably do better just going deep fire.

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Yes, the 4P T6 is to increase your Frost BOlt damage. The discussion is over deep arcane FROST builds, with a guy keeping up WC.

I also think it is comparing deep arcane frost to deep frost. I dont think Deep fire is part of the argument.

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so is there any rumor about the 8 tier 6 bonus set?

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no

T6 will now be an 8 piece set but only the same 2 and 4 piece set bonuses

smart itemization move by blizz imo

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Yes, the 4P T6 is to increase your Frost BOlt damage. The discussion is over deep arcane FROST builds, with a guy keeping up WC.

I also think it is comparing deep arcane frost to deep frost. I dont think Deep fire is part of the argument.

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actually the 4piece t6 would be because 3 of those pieces are best in slot (the new ones from sunwell - from what i've heard, and because of that, you may as well pick up the 4th since you are that close to the bonus anyways)