Hello CM's,

My question is regarding the state of the Honor Grind. Are the Dev's

a) Aware of the current rate of acquisition of Honor?
b) Happy with the way it is at present?

I am a newly 70 shaman. With the 5man gear horribly out of date, my two avenues of character advancement are:

a) Honor grind
b) BoJ Grind (not really a option as most heroics are gear checks)

Neither of which is particularly appealing, in fact just the prospect of the grind ahead has put me off this game completely.

Note: Raiding and Arena are completely out of the question for a new level 70. Consistent Kara groups are hard to find and even for kara PUGS there is a certain expectation of gear level. You need to run 5mans for a while (till the gods of the RNG smile upon you) before you are ready for Kara.

I did some calculations for Honor requirements for Resto shamans:

Vindicators Gear:
Wrist - 11794 Honor
Waist - 17850 Honor
Feet - 17850 Honor

S1 Honor Gear
Helm -14500 Honor
Shoulders - 11250 Honor
Chest - 14500 Honor
Hands - 10500 Honor
Legs - 14500 Honor

Weapons + OH
1h Healing Mace - 25000 Honor
OH - 9000 Honor

Neck - 15300 Honor
Ring 1 - 15300 Honor
Ring 2 - 11934 Honor
Cape - 7548 Honor
Trinkets x 2 - 60000 Honor


Total Honor required - 256826 Honor /weep

Now the average player probably plays WoW 21 hours per week or 2 1/2 hours per day (this is being generous imo). Assume 1000 Honor per hour (again pretty generous what with dodgy AV maps and premade groups and High resiliance requirements).

This means a over time steady rate of Honor acquisition at 2500Honor per day (some days more some days less but steady over time).

So to get all the gear above I am looking at 102 straight days of playing the same 4 battlegrounds for 2.5 Hours every day.

This is frankly ridiculous and completely over the top. We have now gone the complete circle and back to the old design philosophy of the GM grind. The rate of Honor acquisition needs to go up by 30% AND the cost of Honor items needs to come down by 30%.

I don't know what the devs are afraid of. So what if people get their honor gear fast? It is not like the game is over for you. In fact on the contrary getting the Honor gear opens up tons of new content for you, suddenly you are looking at the possibility of doing the 25man raids, doing Heroics, doing ZA, not getting insta-gibbed in arena.

While I agree that the honor grind is extreme, especially with Q strikes...

You can easily arena as a new level 70 -- you get points, win or lose, remember?
Why can't you do normal instances for 70 blues, or craft some gear? You just write off heroics?
Kara is completely possible, just find a guild who does runs for new 70s, then join it.

Do arenas. Doesnt matter how trash your gear is, get weekly points whatever the means or you will regret it later.

And yeah, BG's are absurd. Make sure you get pieces you cant update in arena before the ones you can btw.

So now season 1 honor gear is too hard to get? Give me a break. No. You're not going to get ALL the gear you need on that toon within a week. If that's what you're expecting, just quit. This isn't the genre for you.

Focus on ONE item at a time and you'll find it's MUCH more plausible. Most people tend to go with shoulders or weapons first. I suggest you start with those. Run a few heroics on the side.

Stop looking for INSTANT gratification.

I swear to Christ, some of you won't be happy until blizzard is giving out free Tier 8 in the mail upon logging in each day.

A peer of ours [70] said he was able to land shoulders and gloves for S1 within 2 days.

Therefore I guestimate he was able to make at least [around] 12000 honor and 15 battlegrounds in a twenty four hour span.

Personally I was able to make 500 honor in 30 minutes, or 1000 in 60. So I guess it looks like 12 hours to get one of these items, mind you I dont pvp well at all.

Well, good luck with it. I would start with S1 and go from there.

---

Q u o t e:
So now season 1 honor gear is too hard to get? Give me a break. No. You're not going to get ALL the gear you need on that toon within a week. If that's what you're expecting, just quit. This isn't the genre for you.

Focus on ONE item at a time and you'll find it's MUCH more plausible. Most people tend to go with shoulders or weapons first. I suggest you start with those. Run a few heroics on the side.

Stop looking for INSTANT gratification.

I swear to Christ, some of you won't be happy until blizzard is giving out free Tier 8 in the mail upon logging in each day.

---

There's a difference between wanting instant gratification and having to play the same maps we have been playing for years, for months and months.

Not to mention, what fun is it to fight a bunch of people in your quest greens when they are all purpled out?

Lastly, if Blizzard is encouraging people to level alts with the quest changes and such, they are discouraging it with how painful the honor grind can be. This is speaking from the perspective of someone who did the old one multiple times.

---

Q u o t e:
Hello CM's,

My question is regarding the state of the Honor Grind. Are the Dev's

a) Aware of the current rate of acquisition of Honor?
b) Happy with the way it is at present?

I am a newly 70 shaman. With the 5man gear horribly out of date, my two avenues of character advancement are:

a) Honor grind
b) BoJ Grind (not really a option as most heroics are gear checks)

Neither of which is particularly appealing, in fact just the prospect of the grind ahead has put me off this game completely.

Note: Raiding and Arena are completely out of the question for a new level 70. Consistent Kara groups are hard to find and even for kara PUGS there is a certain expectation of gear level. You need to run 5mans for a while (till the gods of the RNG smile upon you) before you are ready for Kara.

I did some calculations for Honor requirements for Resto shamans:

Vindicators Gear:
Wrist - 11794 Honor
Waist - 17850 Honor
Feet - 17850 Honor

S1 Honor Gear
Helm -14500 Honor
Shoulders - 11250 Honor
Chest - 14500 Honor
Hands - 10500 Honor
Legs - 14500 Honor

Weapons + OH
1h Healing Mace - 25000 Honor
OH - 9000 Honor

Neck - 15300 Honor
Ring 1 - 15300 Honor
Ring 2 - 11934 Honor
Cape - 7548 Honor
Trinkets x 2 - 60000 Honor


Total Honor required - 256826 Honor /weep

Now the average player probably plays WoW 21 hours per week or 2 1/2 hours per day (this is being generous imo). Assume 1000 Honor per hour (again pretty generous what with dodgy AV maps and premade groups and High resiliance requirements).

This means a over time steady rate of Honor acquisition at 2500Honor per day (some days more some days less but steady over time).

So to get all the gear above I am looking at 102 straight days of playing the same 4 battlegrounds for 2.5 Hours every day.

This is frankly ridiculous and completely over the top. We have now gone the complete circle and back to the old design philosophy of the GM grind. The rate of Honor acquisition needs to go up by 30% AND the cost of Honor items needs to come down by 30%.

I don't know what the devs are afraid of. So what if people get their honor gear fast? It is not like the game is over for you. In fact on the contrary getting the Honor gear opens up tons of new content for you, suddenly you are looking at the possibility of doing the 25man raids, doing Heroics, doing ZA, not getting insta-gibbed in arena.

---

You have to have the gear now? Whats the rush. Honestly, if I was a new level 70... I would:

a) Get me a couple arena teams and just do my 30% a week.

b) Do bgs and cap my honor, every time you cap it, buy yourself something and then cap it again, waiting for season 4, or until they let you buy season 2 gear with honor. You will probably still end up with full season 1 gear if you play 2 and a half hours a day.

c) ?¿?¿

d) Profit!

The problem is, it sounds like you want it all and want it NOW, Veruca Salt. There is really no rush in a game like this. If there is a rush for you, then learn to play more hours and quit generalizing how much casuals play.

most people play more then 2.5 hours on weekdays, definaly more on weekends plus bonus weekends and daily PvP quest.

Although I agree that playing the same BG over and over and over gets old fast and I'd love more BG's I'd have to say it's more realistic to say beteween 5-7k a day, meaning a new piece of gear every 2-3 days. Even at your 2500 a day your talking getting one of the highest level epics in hte game every 6 days.

I think the current level is fine, anything less and htey might as well just give us a full set of PvP gear for free off of a vendor.

Uha

---

Q u o t e:
it's more realistic to say beteween 5-7k a day,

---

I would love to play on your battlegroup.

---

Q u o t e:
You have to have the gear now? Whats the rush.

---

Experiencing the only fun content in this game, arenas, in a competitive setting?

As stated, pick out some of the best pieces you can conceivably get and work towards them. Sure, 18k honor is a decent amount, but then your main hand slot is filled with a near Kara equivalent. Once you mix together regular five mans, arena, and some battlegrounds, you'll gear up just fine.

I have never worn a PvP epic while tanking. I got my first Kara drop before I got my first heroic item. find a group starting Kara or short a healer and win. It's going to take you months before you're ready to move up though, hope you're aware of that.

---

Q u o t e:


There's a difference between wanting instant gratification and having to play the same maps we have been playing for years, for months and months.

---

Then the problem isn't honor point acquisition rates. It's the fact that new maps are needed.

---

Q u o t e:

Not to mention, what fun is it to fight a bunch of people in your quest greens when they are all purpled out?

---

So running a few 5 mans for blues on the side is just impossible for players now? Stop the QQ and get some blues. 5 man pugs are ALWAYS going. Queue up.

---

Q u o t e:

Lastly, if Blizzard is encouraging people to level alts with the quest changes and such, they are discouraging it with how painful the honor grind can be. This is speaking from the perspective of someone who did the old one multiple times.

---

Give me a break. The honor points are fine. You get tangible points for time played. Unlike raiding or 5 mans where you can spend HOURS only to find your gear didn't drop, therefore your time spent was worth nothing, in BG's you always get points.

Stop expecting Blizzard to keep watering the game down. Does it take time? Of course. You're not going to "grind" through BG's in a week and have all the gear you could.

On a separate note, this is why PvP with loot as the focus for winning doesn't work. You have too many people that aren't doing it because they enjoy it. They're just doing it because it's the path of least resistance to epics.

Ugh. I'd rather see long quest chains for epics and world pvp with no reward besides trivial titles and bragging rights.

i agree 1000% with ur 30% idea. is would so help SO much. at lest with kara. its really hard on my server to get into kara. you NEED to have 1200 ap MIN befo they even say hi to u

---

Q u o t e:


You have to have the gear now? Whats the rush. Honestly, if I was a new level 70... I would:

a) Get me a couple arena teams and just do my 30% a week.

b) Do bgs and cap my honor, every time you cap it, buy yourself something and then cap it again, waiting for season 4, or until they let you buy season 2 gear with honor. You will probably still end up with full season 1 gear if you play 2 and a half hours a day.

c) ?¿?¿

d) Profit!

The problem is, it sounds like you want it all and want it NOW, Veruca Salt. There is really no rush in a game like this. If there is a rush for you, then learn to play more hours and quit generalizing how much casuals play.

---

First of all without gear at Level 70 you are nothing and it is even more painful when you are Resto spec. The difference between a new level 70 and a geared level 70 is huge, gigantic, very large, immense etc etc. Hell I can't even finsh my remaining quests because I am so gimped. So it is not instant gratification that I am after but rather the something to make keep playing this game and make it fun.

It's like Blizzard made this completely different, amazingly fun game level 1-69 and then as soon as you are level 70 they put huge roadblock in front of you with sign that says "Thou shall not have anymore fun for a while". it is simply absurd.

And please stop with the straw man arguments.... "uh you just want free epics from the vendor as soon as you get to level 70". I did not say anything like that. I think there is a lot of leeway between the current massive uphill honor grind and making it some reasonable.


Also which arena team in their right mind is going to take in a newly 70 shaman? Ok so I form my own 2 man team, find another sucker and whoopity doo I can now get arena points at the rate of 200 per week. So now I just 4 months of arena and I am all set. Do you realize how insane that sounds?

This idiot cross posted this topic on the FoH boards and is getting flamed out of existence. Keep the bullshit here.

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/32798-wow-honor-grind-chronicles.html

I am personally in favour of anything that gets people who are only playing BGs to get their arena prerequisite gear through faster. Maybe then, there will be some people who actually want to play the games and the alliance can stop #%@#%ing at me to lose AV because they want better honor per hour.

You have to have S1 if you want to win in arena at lower brackets, so make it more plausible to get. Sounds fair. Less grinding is always a good thing. Those who think otherwise want accomplishments to be based on time committed and not skill and effort.

---

Q u o t e:




Then the problem isn't honor point acquisition rates. It's the fact that new maps are needed.

---

Indeed, but Blizzard has show itself to enjoy taking the path of least resistance. That path would be adjusting honor rates.

---

Q u o t e:

So running a few 5 mans for blues on the side is just impossible for players now? Stop the QQ and get some blues. 5 man pugs are ALWAYS going. Queue up.

---

Most 5 man gear is crappy for PvP as well, not to mention that said dungeons are never fun to do for the 50000th time.

---

Q u o t e:

Give me a break. The honor points are fine. You get tangible points for time played. Unlike raiding or 5 mans where you can spend HOURS only to find your gear didn't drop, therefore your time spent was worth nothing, in BG's you always get points.

---

False.

---

Q u o t e:

Stop expecting Blizzard to keep watering the game down. Does it take time? Of course. You're not going to "grind" through BG's in a week and have all the gear you could.

---

Time, yes. An inordinate amount of time, most certainly.

I do PvP because I enjoy it. However, getting 2 shotted by people for several months is not conducive to fun. Why not make the battlegrounds a more skill than gear based environment by making it quicker to gear up?