World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard

Chibori

< Nomads >

Whisperwind

60. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:27:33 AM PST

Korek is the smartest cow alive. If Blizz would just listen to you, or the Horde players on Battlegroups that employ the "scorched earth" tactic would listen to your reasoning on why we don't queue AV the world would be a better place.

I will refrain from having a hamburger at lunch today in your honor.

Ruakh

< KAI >

Rexxar

62. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:30:14 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Just provide 200 Bonus Honor for Losing.

Everyone wins, more queue. Winners earn more, Losers earn more.

AV has no "Nice Try" award like the other BGs.

I agree something needs to be done to stop the "extreme punishment" for losing. This is a virtual game... nothing in it is real, but the emotions we feel are real. Good emotions keeps money in Blizzard pockets. Blizzard rewards people for participating in their BGs. Its "their" BGs.. not ours, they designed it and force us to play by their rules, by their design. They force us to join with 39 other random people that may be under geared, unexperienced, afk bots, or simply will not work as a team.

How can you punish the people that honestly attempt to win? All you are saying to them is their sacrifice is pointless, their time is valueless, and they all need to shut of QQing and die like good canon fodder so the winners can enjoy their huge reward!

Darmuk

Zul'jin

63. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:31:05 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Just provide 200 Bonus Honor for Losing.

Everyone wins, more queue. Winners earn more, Losers earn more.

AV has no "Nice Try" award like the other BGs.

OFT.

Heck 150 for losing would most likely be enough. Horde would get there 500-600 like Alliance did pre-2.3 and Alliance would get 200-300 pre 2.3 like Horde did.

Devorick

< Silent Resurgence >

Moonrunner

65. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:31:41 AM PST

Lets also forget to mention that AV used to also be a fun way to increase Alliance/Horde reputations... That aspect of AV was assassinated too.

Jilla

< Carebear Stare >

Lightbringer

66. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:32:51 AM PST

Korek has exactly the right idea.

Alliance are not going to continue to play a BG that nets them maybe 100 honour if they are lucky. It's not advantageous for them. Just mirror the maps. I have said that from the very beginning when Horde had issues with AV and I say it now. Mirror the maps and the NPC's so they are exactly the same in every fashion.

I'm thankful that even if we do lose in AV most of the time we get about 300-500 honour in my BG. It's why I still queue up for it.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Napkin

< JAGD Empire >

Burning Legion

67. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:33:28 AM PST

Q u o t e:

I hope you're not implying that we are saying that AV is now "fixed". Please reread what we posted about this hotfix again.

As it says in the statement, this is meant to assist in balancing the opposing sides and their ability to compete in the battleground. We are still watching the results of these changes and will continue to make changes as we feel are necessary. We certainly aren't ignoring it and we certainly aren't considering ourselves "done" with this battleground. We'll do our best to keep everyone informed as we go along.

Please try to post constructive feedback on your experiences with these changes and how it is having its effect. Some changes are better done a little at a time so we can better gauge the impacts. You may call them bandage if you wish, but last I checked, bandages sometimes do a great job in keeping a wound clean and letting something heal on its own.

NETHAERA

this is the worst fix in the world. on my server horde lose about 80% of the time. and im not kidding. This will only increase the amount of losses. AV IS NOT IN HORDE FAVOR. HORDE R JUST SMARTER ON SOME SERVERS. please do not let this happen. i want to win in AV SOMETIMES.

Branalia

< Vox >

Spinebreaker

68. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:33:57 AM PST

Drastically reducing the number of Storm Crystals/Blood required to summon the elemental lords would go a long way to helping the defenders... especially if they got summoned IN the bases instead of the NPCs running out to their deaths across the bridge/just outside the base.

Huntforever

< Defenders Of Muradin >

Muradin

69. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:34:31 AM PST

Q u o t e:

With the reinforcement System in place now, Av is now literally a Race. There is no way that you can say that it is not. It is almost impossible for games to exceed 45 minutes now because of the Reforcement system. I kid you not, it IS the worst change i have EVER seen to Av. You don't get a chance to harvest and get the resources for Riders anymore. Any and all Wind Riders literally cannot be released more then once because of the cooldown, and with the new system ive YET to see anyone have the chance to release one. Capping mines give Resources now, but gathering them and turning them in takes time, time that players no longer have, making ground assults almost impossible unless you start right from the beginning.

Av is "Just a race" to some people. But for others, it used to be fun, and to me, Av is no longer fun for me, and if something is no longer fun, why bother playing it anymore. Im not going to waste my time in a battleground where i cannot enjoy myself. I would much rather be in a 4 hour game where we Release our riders, send out a few flying bombers, and or even have a ground assault. Instead we are stuck with a zerg race to see who can kill each other first. They have already taken everything away from Av which was fun and enjoyable, they need to just finish what they have started and remove Av completely from the game.

This is sooo the truth =D
I had the most fun in AV back when the games were long and there was thought in how to go about (ie release the riders, gather resources ect) its gotten to the point that I don't play anymore.

Q u o t e:
"I might mention that with Mages getting invisibility, the composition of the "stealth" group might be expanded beyond with Rogues and Druids. "

Just a thought from a Blue

Touché

< The Addicts >

Draka

70. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:34:37 AM PST

Q u o t e:

1) never seen it done, never had to. stealth works wonders for making archers despawn you noob

2) and you can get to our bunker and first GY before we even hit midfield

3) uh...no. see the archers auto attack anyone who steps outside past that lil gateway, and its impossible to avoid them unless they are already dead

1.You can hide in the flag room of towers and not get hit by archers, you cannot do that with the Alliance, it is in the open.
___________

2. God forbid we actually have 1 thing help us win this game majorly unbalanced in your favor.

___________

3.No, just no, how often did I see a rogue or a druid soloing and caping the FWRH without the archers ever reacting. On the SPFA you have to kill the archers before you can cap, unless you want to take a chance of them hitting you while capping.

Alliance Archer distance to Flag (__)
Horde Archer distance to Flag (__________)

[ Post edited by Touché ]

Nethaera

Blizzard Poster

72. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:38:29 AM PST

There is alot about AV that is psychological in nature. What is your mindset when you go in? What is the mindset of the others on your team? There have been changes in AV that is true, but at this point, there haven't been any geographical changes. I have been in AVs where the other side absolutely annihilated my own due to a lack of coordination and a lack of defenders. I've also had the flip side where our side defended and won out. In both cases it was a matter of teamwork and strategy. (These were pugs in this case.) Yet perceptions of who wins or loses more have shifted.

(Caveat-Different Battlegrounds have different ratios of wins and losses for the factions.)

Prior to changes, Horde were more vocal on the forums about losing in this battleground. The changes made were to resources and where your bonus honor comes from as seen in this thread-

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3547877767&sid=1

And the initial changes to AV (capture times, graveyard spawning) from patch 2.3 as discussed here-

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2215842565&sid=1

So how much is related to actual gameplay changes and how much is the psychology of the battleground?

I've seen it said many times in many arguments about mentality changes in regard to those that are now participating more versus not participating more. If it was AFKers that were causing the issue before, why is it that so many are going AFK (according to claims) on the Alliance side when they were previously winning? If you wanted to keep winning wouldn't you just keep playing? Same as for Horde, what was the 'switch" that caused people to stop going AFK (according to player reports) and participate?

The above questions are not because I don't know or understand, but are meant to prompt more constructive discussion about where community members as individuals are seeing the changes. Is it the map ? Or is it the mentality that has changed in the approach?

We are aware that there are perceptual differences in who is winning more or has more afkers. We are also being careful to gauge what changes to AV are necessary or will enhance the gameplay in the battleground. This has not changed and we will continue to work toward improving the battleground.

bu·col·ic spelled Pronunciation[byoo-kol-ik]
1. of or pertaining to shepherds; pastoral. 2. of, pertaining to, or suggesting an idyllic rural life.
3. a pastoral poem. 4. Archaic. a farm

Triscuit

< Pink Mafia >

Sargeras

73. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:38:50 AM PST

This fix will not alter anything. This change is being made so that we all think there is real work going on behind the scenes. This is like walking into the doctor's office with a severed limb and walking out with a lollipop. Sure it tastes great and you are glad the doctor was kind enough to give you one, but you would still like to have your arm reattached.

Blizz, we would have been content with just a message that you are working on it. We don't need these fake fixes just to keep up happy. Do the real balancing then implement it when it tests out as balanced for both sides. Anything short of that is a bit insulting.

Devorick

< Silent Resurgence >

Moonrunner

74. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:38:59 AM PST

Q u o t e:

NETHAERA

this is the worst fix in the world. on my server horde lose about 80% of the time. and im not kidding. This will only increase the amount of losses. AV IS NOT IN HORDE FAVOR. HORDE R JUST SMARTER ON SOME SERVERS. please do not let this happen. i want to win in AV SOMETIMES.

You go on believing that even though all hard data showing damage done in average AV, average kills, average honor earned, and average games won ALL favor horde on over 70% of AV games on most battlegroups... 90% on others, and I'm not even gettin into Stormstrike.

But it's a BG - ultimately 2 things matter. Fun and honor. Getting 0-20 honor for a 18-30min spanking is not fun. Getting 0-20 honor over 11 games in a how is not fun to the power of 11. And the fact that this has become the overwhelming majority show's that change is needed despite the clear anomoly that your battle group is.

Lunt

< Faceroll >

Anub'arak

75. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:39:58 AM PST

any idiot with a brain can see the ridiculous imbalance between balinda and galvangar... this change was looong overdue

Triscuit

< Pink Mafia >

Sargeras

76. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:40:39 AM PST

Q u o t e:

(Caveat-Different Battlegrounds have different ratios of wins and losses for the factions.)

Make this information available to us.

Vomitious

< Envy >

Dragonmaw

77. Re: AV Balance Screwed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:40:51 AM PST

Q u o t e:

1. Alliance still exploit Horde towers, they are capable of attacking our archers through the walls in the small flag room. They can also safely cap the flag without concern about being hit by an archer either.
2. Alliance can hop a fence and ride passed our entire base full of NPCs.
3. Alliance can safely ride inside our base without being hit by archers. They ride under buildings, and still outside the LoS of our archers while capping the Relief Hut.

I\\\'m lucky to make it to the Aid Station flag without 50 arrows shot at me, and a dozen trash NPCs chasing me all over their base. Was it truly necessary to give their vendors 50,000HPs? While some can be avoided, any Ally fear bombs or Horde AoE will send trash mobs barreling down on our offense.

It was BLIZZ not Horde who stated that the Alliance base and Bridge of Death was unfair to Horde. So your solution was to Buff Vann and Bal?

THIS THIS THIS.

This x 1,000,000

I have spent MONTHS in AV.

Alliance have a terrain advantage
Alliance have the bridge
Alliance have the hills up to SP
Alliance have the \\\"shoot through the mountains\\\" around SP
Alliance have TOWERS
Alliance have merchants that AGGRO
Alliance can cap the aid station without aggroing a SINGLE NPC.
Alliance GYs have a natural tactical advantage.
Alliance have a TON of mobs in Vann\\\'s room

THis is ridiculous.

Quit playing Diablo 2, guys, and play AV.

There is nothing psychological about it. AV is now nothing more than a foot race and mini raid on a mob.

I want to kill gnomes, not NPCs. I want to slaughter humans, not Vendors.

[ Post edited by Vomitious ]

Candyman

Uldum

78. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:41:40 AM PST

Q u o t e:

With the reinforcement System in place now, Av is now literally a Race. There is no way that you can say that it is not. It is almost impossible for games to exceed 45 minutes now because of the Reforcement system. I kid you not, it IS the worst change i have EVER seen to Av. You don't get a chance to harvest and get the resources for Riders anymore. Any and all Wind Riders literally cannot be released more then once because of the cooldown, and with the new system ive YET to see anyone have the chance to release one. Capping mines give Resources now, but gathering them and turning them in takes time, time that players no longer have, making ground assults almost impossible unless you start right from the beginning.

Av is "Just a race" to some people. But for others, it used to be fun, and to me, Av is no longer fun for me, and if something is no longer fun, why bother playing it anymore. Im not going to waste my time in a battleground where i cannot enjoy myself. I would much rather be in a 4 hour game where we Release our riders, send out a few flying bombers, and or even have a ground assault. Instead we are stuck with a zerg race to see who can kill each other first. They have already taken everything away from Av which was fun and enjoyable, they need to just finish what they have started and remove Av completely from the game.

We got Ivus out yesterday, and the WCs, no Riders though.

Man you shoulda seen those Horde reinforcements drop, I think the game ended with Horde at 0 and Alliance at like 10.

The funny part was that 3/4 of the Alliance team didn't know who Ivus was and was scared of him.

I don't expect I'll see that anytime again soon, by my god was that a fun game!

"It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Cptobvious

< The Faithful Few >

Bonechewer

79. Re: AV Balance Fixed In Hotfix per Blizzard 01/09/2008 08:42:07 AM PST

What I would like to know is about the starting points.

This is the one thing I have seen in AV that is not theoretical, it is an obvious fact. We all know that horde can get to our graveyard or balinda faster than we can get to theirs. When will this be fixed?

I don't need your logic, I have ignorance on my side!

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