AV doesnt need to be changed

Alli just need to grow up and L2P, maybe work together once out of every 10 games to start
(what a concept!)

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Q u o t e:
Reply: So are u saying that for the Alliance to have fun the odds have to be unfair to the Horde?

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of course he is. AV is the only BG that the allies have problems with... and also the only one they can't go premade in. Coincidence?

Anyway, i'm kinda glad the allies did this. The other BG's are so much easier to win now. No more starting out with 5 Horde.

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Q u o t e:



My thoughts exactly. That statement doesnt make sense. AV is what it is. Dont blame Horde for what Blizzard did.

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Let me make it simpler for you, and your preceeding friend. (That means the guy that came before you.)

While its FAIR, to have us take turns at the sucky side of the map, its not FUN. I want close games decided by play. Taking turns on the sucky side of the map would drag it down to a coin flip. (That's a figure of speech, not a literal reference. Oh, Literal reference means exactly what I said, while figure of speech means something like "For All Intents And Purposes")

To put it another way, it may be FAIR for us to take turns being bitten by the giant doberman, its not FUN, it would be more fun to figure out a way to pet the dog wihtout being bitten.

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Q u o t e:
Not on this battlegroup...horde defend alot of towers, the difference may be that we actually defend the towers, preventing you guys from getting to the flag altogether, as opposed to storming the joint after it's been contested.

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From personal experience, Absolutely not true by around 99%. I can take your towers all day, and I can count on at least 3-4 hordes coming and kicking my ass, laughing at me a few times, and then taking it back.

Yes, Horde defends, but your counter attacks are just as impressive. I can count on one hand (after 50+ games) the number of times I was able to touch IBT or TP and not have 2-4 Horde on me within 1 minute. And this is even late in the game, where you might think it was too much trouble to come down and get TP, while the other guys are on Van.

One might say, why not throw us a bone every now and then, But I understand you want Max honor. Even though some of your guys claim Horde doesn't really care about honor.

They're fixing av, check worldofraids or
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3773329652&postId=37728709840&sid=1#22

Blue post says so

Unfortunately without a discussion with the players before the fix, it really just leaves me wondering what THEY think is wrong with it.

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Q u o t e:



My thoughts exactly. That statement doesnt make sense. AV is what it is. Dont blame Horde for what Blizzard did. Learn to use new strategies in AV. Practice Makes perfect. Only problem is, is that you cant practice something if you dont PLAY it. This "boycott" isnt helping either faction and therefore, there is no gain. End it and bring back the good days of Ally v.s Horde. Ally v.s. Horde is what keeps this game fun and if its not part of the game anymore, it will make WoW crap.

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God I LOVE how you guys are completely ignoring the rest of his post, which makes for a legitimate arguement, just so you can say "Lawl, see, alliance just want us to suffer!"

morons...

thanks Naktu. You have any ideas for FWGY? SPGY isn't the impregnable fortress people are making it out to be. Its easily defended against a frontal assault but it can be backdoored pretty easily, from the mine side, if a couple horde sneak through the valley and under the bridge. Maybe flipflop the flag and the GY itself.

Why is it Blizzard's job?

Several reasons:

1) They control the game mechanics

2) BG's are set up to be roughly equal teams- hence the max numbers, and level brackets et. al.

3) Honor is spent like "money" thus they have to monitor and control the influx of that monetary unit to keep their economy healthy.

People don't seem to understand, if Alliance got decent honour for losing, there would be no problem.

That is why there was no problem before 2.3.

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Q u o t e:
People don't seem to understand, if Alliance got decent honour for losing, there would be no problem.

That is why there was no problem before 2.3.

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If you did that for alliance you would have to do that for horde as well or else it wouldn't really be fair not that we have ever been childish enough to go on strike (as far as I know).
This would mean more honor for horde because we would still be winning and you guys would still be losing because of the honor increase you wouldn't care and you wouldn't change your strategies.Horde would be getting the winning honor most of the time and when we did lose we would be getting honor that was decent anyway in comparison to you loss honor with a little winning honor. This leads to more gear which equals more premades in other BGs (if we could be bothered), better arena and making it easier for us to kick your collective @r$3$ as a faction. Thus leading back to the original problem.

On another note. We have a problem with teamwork in other BGs so yeh we usually lose, you guys have a problem with teamwork and strategy in AV. Do you think I enjoy knowing that to get some gear I have to lose EotS or AB 80 times to get the marks?! NO! But I suck it up and do it. So what is so difficult about instead of posting a QQ fest on the forums and boycotting, posting something about strategies and working it out amongst yourselves instead of crying to blizzard to fix it for you?! Jesus if you could organize yourselves in AV as well as you have for this boycott or any of the other BGs then you would not have a problem at all!
Well that is my 10c worth.
Feel free to flame away if you wish but you know it is true.
GG and goodnight.

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Q u o t e:


If you did that for alliance you would have to do that for horde as well or else it wouldn't really be fair not that we have ever been childish enough to go on strike (as far as I know).
This would mean more honor for horde because we would still be winning and you guys would still be losing because of the honor increase you wouldn't care and you wouldn't change your strategies.Horde would be getting the winning honor most of the time and when we did lose we would be getting honor that was decent anyway in comparison to you loss honor with a little winning honor. This leads to more gear which equals more premades in other BGs (if we could be bothered), better arena and making it easier for us to kick your collective @r$3$ as a faction. Thus leading back to the original problem.

On another note. We have a problem with teamwork in other BGs so yeh we usually lose, you guys have a problem with teamwork and strategy in AV. Do you think I enjoy knowing that to get some gear I have to lose EotS or AB 80 times to get the marks?! NO! But I suck it up and do it. So what is so difficult about instead of posting a QQ fest on the forums and boycotting, posting something about strategies and working it out amongst yourselves instead of crying to blizzard to fix it for you?! Jesus if you could organize yourselves in AV as well as you have for this boycott or any of the other BGs then you would not have a problem at all!
Well that is my 10c worth.
Feel free to flame away if you wish but you know it is true.
GG and goodnight.

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Uhm, why would you need more honour? I mean seriously, if you just threw the losing team a bone, they'd be more inclined to play. I mean imagine professional baseball the same way, that there is an a lotted amount of money that people can get based on the score that they achieve. Now imagine that there is two conferences like American Football, and one side consistently beats the other and most of the games the losing side doesn't get any money at all. How long would it be before the losing side just gives up and goes to play Cricket instead? Not very long.

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Q u o t e:
If you did that for alliance you would have to do that for horde as well or else it wouldn't really be fair not that we have ever been childish enough to go on strike (as far as I know).

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What's childish is starting dozens of whining threads. There's nothing childish about playing BGs to get the best honor per hour and the most enjoyment, and it's not a 'strike' or 'boycott' anymore than people running heroic Mechanar or Underbog for badges are 'boycotting' or 'on strike' against heroic Durnholde.

The whole 'we horde kept playing when we were losing' bit is silly; horde made good honor/hour by losing in old AV, and that's the only reason you'd show up. In all of the QQ threads, you'd have hordies bragging about how much better the honor/hour was for AFKing in AV than dragging out the game trying to win.

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Q u o t e:
On another note. We have a problem with teamwork in other BGs so yeh we usually lose, you guys have a problem with teamwork and strategy in AV. Do you think I enjoy knowing that to get some gear I have to lose EotS or AB 80 times to get the marks?! NO! But I suck it up and do it.

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So you're saying that you queue up for BGs when there is a reward for them? Why then do you complain so bitterly when allies queue for BGs that provide good rewards?

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Q u o t e:
So what is so difficult about instead of posting a QQ fest on the forums and boycotting, posting something about strategies and working it out amongst yourselves instead of crying to blizzard to fix it for you?!

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Horde are the ones posting the QQ festival, just look at who's starting these threads. I find it amusing that the 'mature' horde post dozens of QQ threads, then accuse the allies of posting a QQ festival when someone responds to them.

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Q u o t e:
Jesus if you could organize yourselves in AV as well as you have for this boycott or any of the other BGs then you would not have a problem at all!

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There is no 'boycott' of AV anymore than there is a 'boycott' of Molten Core, and there's certainly no organization to people not playing a BG that doesn't give good honor returns. The horde, posters of dozens of QQ threads, are clearly the ones with the problem - alliance are simply getting honor points from other BGs, and most alliance probably have 100 AV marks banked from when AV was the best honor/hour.

Plus whenever Alliance does organize for AV it just results in Horde QQing about premades destroying them.

There's nothing to "fix" in the battleground itself. Both sides have effective choke points for D. Both sides have clear paths to the objectives. Allies arguably have the "better" layout as the bridge presents the most narrow and unavoidable choke point.

The "fix" is in retraining people who have been used to doing the same thing for the better part of a year: Ride past everything in the battleground to the relief hut, dogpile the flag, rush the general.

For the better part of a year horde dealt with morons riding up the valley choke point until we learned to ride around (and people still do it). For the better part of a year horde dealt with the "cap and advance" mentality that let most of our stuff get retaken by a single stealther.

It took a long time to "get it" because your average hk-obsessed pvper didn't see much difference in the honor bottom line, and many times horde really was racing to the finish because the ally zerg was bypassing like they always did.

The key difference here is play style. Alliance are generally geared towards making something quick, easy, and repeatable... whereas Horde is generally geared towards finding conflict and attacking objectives.

When Alliance was winnin 90% of the time before the change, that's why they played. Quick, easy, repeatable. The horde *still played*... because even though it was a losing battle, they could still find the conflict and "attack stuff".

Now that the tables have turned, the Alliance no longer have quick/easy/repeatable, so instead of going through the painful task of teaching and learning like the horde had to, they instead choose to not play, blame the changes, and hide behind the false guise of "poor time invested".

And that is what's disappointing. Even though the horde lose, we still play. And it's in that will to keep trying that we finally pulled our heads out and started doing well.

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Q u o t e:

There is no 'boycott' of AV anymore than there is a 'boycott' of Molten Core, and there's certainly no organization to people not playing a BG that doesn't give good honor returns. The horde, posters of dozens of QQ threads, are clearly the ones with the problem - alliance are simply getting honor points from other BGs

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This is precicely the ignorance I'm describing at the end of my last post.

Winning big in AV boasts 600+ honor. *Losing* an AV in even a somewhat close match yields 2-300+ honor. Both of these numbers are significantly better than winning a WSG or an AB, and in most cases it's even better than winning these other battlegrounds on bonus weekend...

Desirable? Yes. Easy to achive? Not at the moment.

The thought of getting honor returns like tihs doesn't interest alliance because they don't want to invest the time in doing what needs to be done to improve: Report the AFKers, learn to play D, and learn to mount an offense rather than trying to zerg / ride past objectives and fronts.

What you don't realize is that less AV's force the horde to play more ABs/EoTS/WSGs, which were previously viewed as "something to do" until AV pops. Since the boycott I've noticed significant improvement on the horde side in AB particularly... where PUGs are starting to 4 cap regularly.

Once the horde get soild at AB and win 90% of the time, are yall gonna boycott that too?

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Q u o t e:
This is precicely the ignorance I'm describing at the end of my last post.

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And this is precisely the ignorance I keep seeing from the horde. You talk as though 'alliance' is acting as a single entity and making decisions, but when it comes down to it things simply don't work that way. When I decide what I'm going to do with a given block of gametime, it's not coordinated through some kind of Alliance Time Allocation Committee, I make the decision based on how things affect me (and to a lesser extent my guild and friends), as does pretty much everyone else. Take a look at this quote below:

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Q u o t e:
The thought of getting honor returns like tihs doesn't interest alliance because they don't want to invest the time in doing what needs to be done to improve: Report the AFKers, learn to play D, and learn to mount an offense rather than trying to zerg / ride past objectives and fronts.

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It's utter nonsense when you think about it. "Alliance" doesn't have an interest, there are a bunch of individual people. Why would I want to invest the time in trying to coordinate and teach the tens of thousands of alliance in this battlegroup, it's not remotely realistic? I don't care about some theoretical honor/hour, what I care about is that if I join an AV, odds are it's going to be kind of long and net 0 honor, so there's no reason for me to bother joining it. If I join a PUG of something else, I get more honor, and if I join a premade of something else, I get a lot more.

It's also utter nonsense to talk about it as "what needs to be done". I don't need to run AV for anything right now - I have 100 tokens banked, and I don't need that many for the honor gear I'll be buying in the next little bit. You'd like me to run AV because it's good honor/hour FOR YOU, but where's the gain FOR ME?

Plus whenever Alliance do "what needs to be done" to win and organize a team, horde post a storm of tears about that too.

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Q u o t e:
What you don't realize is that less AV's force the horde...

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What you don't realize is that no one cares. There are people making individual decisions about what to do now, if things change then people will respond to that on both sides.

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Q u o t e:
Once the horde get soild at AB and win 90% of the time, are yall gonna boycott that too?

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If I don't get good honor/hour in a given BG in a PUG, then I'll either run that BG in a premade, run another one, or do something entirely out of battlegrounds. There simply isn't any boycott going on, there's just people sensibly spending their time in ways that are a combination of enjoyable and efficient at advancing their characters.

Again, when you run AV are you boycotting WSG, AB, and EOTS? If you run BGs, are you boycotting heroics? If you run one particular heroic, are you boycotting the rest? If you run TBC content instead of Azeroth content, are you boycotting Azeroth? Unless you're willing to call all of those "boycotts", then you can't call alliance battleground preferences a "boycott" either.

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Q u o t e:
There's nothing to "fix" in the battleground itself. Both sides have effective choke points for D. Both sides have clear paths to the objectives. Allies arguably have the "better" layout as the bridge presents the most narrow and unavoidable choke point.

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Every single access chokepoint is "north" of the nearest objective/GY. Meaning every single choke point in the game favors defense FROM the south. SPGY has multiple access points, as does the entrance to Fort Frostwolf so neither of those are necessarily choke points.

Furthermore I'd be surprised if the IBGY chokepoint is that much wider than the bridge. AND in that case the nearest GY is BEHIND the choke point, as well as close enough to mutually support the tower, and possibly even Galv.

Comparing the two sides choke points is a lot like comparing the US And Canadian dollar. Sure, they're both dollars, but one's still more valuable.

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Q u o t e:
People don't seem to understand, if Alliance got decent honour for losing, there would be no problem.

That is why there was no problem before 2.3.

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So... What you're saying is that you can't win? I'm sorry, but I really don't think the battleground itself is what's causing you to lose. You have more afkers, maybe you should teach the rest of your faction to play the game honestly instead of botting for honor. I still find it mind boggling that people afk bot battlegrounds. I've been playing this game for over two years now (yes, I know, half of you have played since the start, congratulations), and I've worked for every piece of gear I own, both PVP and PVE. It's not that hard, it just takes time, and apparently most Alliance players can't handle the fact that the game takes time.

Anyways, don't change AV. Change your tactics, you can win when you play it right.

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Q u o t e:
Again, when you run AV are you boycotting WSG, AB, and EOTS? If you run BGs, are you boycotting heroics? If you run one particular heroic, are you boycotting the rest? If you run TBC content instead of Azeroth content, are you boycotting Azeroth? Unless you're willing to call all of those "boycotts", then you can't call alliance battleground preferences a "boycott" either.

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No. But what will happen when we start winning 90% of AV and AB? Or AV and EotS? You're backing into a corner, you may as well improve your strategies so the game is enjoyable by both sides instead of giving up.