In many aspects AV is unbalanced but WoW in general is unbalanced.
If horde and allience were to randomly be assigned to leave the north or the south cave, so both teams could experience the other teams side could that be considered fair? or if any team finds a point where they can block and defend is that considered unfair.

I would love it if they would switch us around like that, would keep it fresh

Fair, yes. Fun, No. For the sake of arguement, lets stipulate that the map heavily favors the southern attacker over the northern defender. I.E. the chokepoint at SHGY is so far north, its even on the other side of the bunker leaving 1 GY and 2 bunkers vulnerable, while the southern chokepoint is the front line at least even with, if not open to actually defending IBT.

If we randomize or round-robin the starting locations... What fun is it for me if I know you guys are spanked before we start. What fun is it if I know I'm spanked before I start. There are several geograhpical changes that need to be made to the map itself.

Starting North and working south:

A) There needs to be a path around the bridge- yet still within sight of that bridge. Say across the bottom of DBN instead of a one-way dropoff, it should be a hilly path -

B) The upper platuea above the road between DB and IW needs to be a one-way drop off, instead of a DFA (Death From Above) caster's wet dream.

C) The chokepoint at IW Bunker needs to be in front of SHGY making SHGY a defensible Chokepoint, likewise the pathing from the valley to the road just below IWB needs to be smoothed out for the people trying to slip through.

D) SHBunker needs to be mutually defendable by the crew at SHGY.

E) Belinda probably needs a little tweeking to prevent the "bonus" of being sheeped, as well as some sort of AOE Fear to subject horde fighting near the entrance to the problem of resetting lieutenants.

F) Horde Starting Cave, and Quest Cave need to be flipflopped.

G) TP should probably slide a little furhter from IBGY towards FWGY.

H) FWGY needs something, not much, but something.

I) The named Sergeant that stands guard outside the building connecting the front stockade with the Drek area needs to be 60 Elite-ish.

J) Drek and Van should be more easily discernible as even. The fact that its even up for debate is ridiculous.

Forgot (L) Drek's wolves need to get gone.

K) The approach to FWRH needs to be slightly more open visually.

If you look at different battlegroups you will see that the opposite is happening, where allience are winning 90% of games and horde are the ones suffering, meaning the map may be unfair but the allience are still winning, there are other forces at work here.

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Q u o t e:
You can't fix stupid.

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Q u o t e:
Fair, yes. Fun, No. For the sake of arguement, lets stipulate that the map heavily favors the southern attacker over the northern defender. I.E. the chokepoint at SHGY is so far north, its even on the other side of the bunker leaving 1 GY and 2 bunkers vulnerable, while the southern chokepoint is the front line at least even with, if not open to actually defending IBT.

If we randomize or round-robin the starting locations... What fun is it for me if I know you guys are spanked before we start. What fun is it if I know I'm spanked before I start. There are several geograhpical changes that need to be made to the map itself.

Starting North and working south:

A) There needs to be a path around the bridge- yet still within sight of that bridge. Say across the bottom of DBN instead of a one-way dropoff, it should be a hilly path -

B) The upper platuea above the road between DB and IW needs to be a one-way drop off, instead of a DFA (Death From Above) caster's wet dream.

C) The chokepoint at IW Bunker needs to be in front of SHGY making SHGY a defensible Chokepoint, likewise the pathing from the valley to the road just below IWB needs to be smoothed out for the people trying to slip through.

D) SHBunker needs to be mutually defendable by the crew at SHGY.

E) Belinda probably needs a little tweeking to prevent the "bonus" of being sheeped, as well as some sort of AOE Fear to subject horde fighting near the entrance to the problem of resetting lieutenants.

F) Horde Starting Cave, and Quest Cave need to be flipflopped.

G) TP should probably slide a little furhter from IBGY towards FWGY.

H) FWGY needs something, not much, but something.

I) The named Sergeant that stands guard outside the building connecting the front stockade with the Drek area needs to be 60 Elite-ish.

J) Drek and Van should be more easily discernible as even. The fact that its even up for debate is ridiculous.

K) The approach to FWRH needs to be slightly more open visually.

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I have a sneaking suspcion that if that happened, you guys would still play the same way, not keep anything, maybe get the captain down and lose, would be interesting to see how that played out.

Yeah, I do get a headache when I try and convince other alli to take back the bunkers. If you haven't played Alli you'd be flippin amazed how many of them ride past a contested bunker. However the flip side is looking at the final "score sheet" Horde don't have many different toons with bunker defenses either, so I imagine you guys have a lot that ride right on by obliviously as well. Buck Fever I call it.

Not on this battlegroup...horde defend alot of towers, the difference may be that we actually defend the towers, preventing you guys from getting to the flag altogether, as opposed to storming the joint after it's been contested.

Horde win as it is if they throw up a little bit of D (10-15 players)

If we had the ridiculously easy-to-defend SP GY and Dun Baldar bridge, wow



While were at it: The vendors in Dun Baldar with millions of hp need to be moved significantly off of the main entry route to Vanndar such that theyre never agrod, as it is in the horde base

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Q u o t e:
You can't fix stupid.

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Which is why you are still broke.

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Q u o t e:
Not on this battlegroup...horde defend alot of towers, the difference may be that we actually defend the towers, preventing you guys from getting to the flag altogether, as opposed to storming the joint after it's been contested.

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Maybe at 70, but not at 60.

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Q u o t e:


Maybe at 70, but not at 60.

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Obviously they are talking about 70, dip.

And just as obviously you have to keep all tiers in mind when making changes. Making changes to WSG for the pre-mount folks will have a pretty hefty impact on the post-mount tiers etc.

[quote]Fair, yes. Fun, No.


Reply: So are u saying that for the Alliance to have fun the odds have to be unfair to the Horde?

No changes are required or needed. Like others have said, on different battlegroupes Alliance are the ones spanking the horde. The fact is Alliance didnt even try to adapt to the new av and kept playing it as it was the old one. So horde did adapt, and own the Alliance game after game. So the allies qq'ed and quit.

If you dont like losing game after game get your ##@* together and win.

they don't need to change the map or the layout of AV.....what blizz needs to do is fix the damn AFK issue.

IMO, they already fixed Av. It's no longer a honor grinding instance, rather, its now a pvp bg.

Here's how u win ally:

Defense:
1) Fight for IW bunk
2) Fight for SH gy
3) Fight for SH bunk
4) Defend Balinda
5) Know when to fall back, or when to go to Offense

Offense:
1) Cap SF more than 50% of the time, and defend it with more than 1 guy those times u do.
2) Actually kill Galv
3) Take IB tower, and defend til it burns
4) Take IB gy "after" SF caps so u can respawn someplace besides SP to rez at
5) Take TP "after" u take IB gy, but keep defending the gy cause we will recap.
6) etc etc etc etc.

Basicly, use ur heads. It's not a race to kill the boss first anymore. Learn it.

On a final note ask urself: Why do premades win? It's cause nobody is afk on a premade team, and everyone does their part. Work together ffs.

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Q u o t e:
[quote]Fair, yes. Fun, No.


Reply: So are u saying that for the Alliance to have fun the odds have to be unfair to the Horde?

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My thoughts exactly. That statement doesnt make sense. AV is what it is. Dont blame Horde for what Blizzard did. Learn to use new strategies in AV. Practice Makes perfect. Only problem is, is that you cant practice something if you dont PLAY it. This "boycott" isnt helping either faction and therefore, there is no gain. End it and bring back the good days of Ally v.s Horde. Ally v.s. Horde is what keeps this game fun and if its not part of the game anymore, it will make WoW crap.

To be honost i dont understand why the allies do so badly. Horde on average has half theres on d on half on o. once the allies o wipes they all go d and lose. when they seem to stay on o they win or at least come close to the honor we got. r d cant take as much as youd think.