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Q u o t e:
There are two ways to level mining. Bot the act of extracting the ore and the act of smelting it.

Skinning and herbalism do not have this.

Mining is fine. Learn to play.

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While the Smelting levelling aspect is true, it pretty much stops at Tin, which I was always disappointed with. All of a sudden I'd hit the mining level hihg enough to smelt gold, except that as soon as I train Smelt Gold, it's grey.

Frankly, that's the only change I would like to see from mining. Make the smelting aspect curve properly with what you can mine so you can at least get a handful of points from smelting when you start a new ore.

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Q u o t e:
So, to sort of break it down to a single issue, you want more ore nodes. What do you think that might effect; what sort of impact would that have on the game?

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I wouldn't have broken it down to that. My experience with mining and blacksmithing was that I had a rubberband effect. Meaning, as I levelled my mining skill didn't compare to my pace of levelling even though I'd hit every node. Then my level and mining skill outpaced my blacksmithing skill and I had to go back to lower level zones.

Back and forth. Back and forth. Repeat several times till you max out your level, mining and bs skills. I have yet to start mining/bs in outland. I hope it does get better.

So, my counter to your "more ore nodes" might be to have diminishing returns for skill gain on each node. That way miners are more apt to be prepared for the next type of ore which in turn will feed the blacksmithing skill.

There are always more than one way to change a game for the better.

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Q u o t e:


Hmm. I've leveled mining to 375 five times so far. Don't ask. Has to do with me moving mining from one toon to another, and then back when I realized a better way to spread my professions across my 3 charactrs.

Its easy. 300-375 in about 2-3 hours with an epic flying mount. Its about a 10 hour job from 0-375 tops. Can probably be done without any tricks in under 7.

So yea, i guess i just completely disagree based on the complete opposite experience that you're describing. Are you sure you're talking about Warcraft?

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We're not talking about a level 70 with an epic flying mount. We're talking about leveling with it..and then continued use of it.

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Q u o t e:


So you save 8 seconds per-node or so? I don't see that actually making any difference. It's just a feel thing, we like having differences between the gathering professions and how each one feels. One you're picking all the leaves off a plant, another you're chipping away bits of rock and pulling out gems and ore.



Well, technically speaking if more ore was coming in, most likely everything would have to be raised in their ore/bar requirements so they cost relatively the same to make. I doubt we would allow a flood of ore to come in with no counter to adjust for it. In the end the outcome of more nodes would pretty much amount to your bags filling up faster.

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Can we perhaps get some of the mats needed lowered? Or even perhaps on the outside let Fel Iron drop more Motes of Fire =D

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Q u o t e:


Yeah, we wouldn't want mining on par with skinng and herbalism now would we? What were we thinking?

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understand economics and you will see why they wont add any more nodes to the game.

lazy players want EVERYTHING to be achieved with NO EFFORT.

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Q u o t e:


Hahaha, I wish I had the brains to work at Blizzard. I think he's asking for more skillups per node hit. If we have to hit it 3 times, why do we only get 1 skillup? Make it at least 2 and problem solved.

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there's no problem to solve.

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Q u o t e:


I wouldn't have broken it down to that. My experience with mining and blacksmithing was that I had a rubberband effect. Meaning, as I levelled my mining skill didn't compare to my pace of levelling even though I'd hit every node. Then my level and mining skill outpaced my blacksmithing skill and I had to go back to lower level zones.

Back and forth. Back and forth. Repeat several times till you max out your level, mining and bs skills. I have yet to start mining/bs in outland. I hope it does get better.

So, my counter to your "more ore nodes" might be to have diminishing returns for skill gain on each node. That way miners are more apt to be prepared for the next type of ore which in turn will feed the blacksmithing skill.

There are always more than one way to change a game for the better.

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Well said.

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Q u o t e:
there's no problem to solve.

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just lazy players wanting things to be earned with NO EFFORT.

mining is just fine.

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Q u o t e:
Well, technically speaking if more ore was coming in, most likely everything would have to be raised in their ore/bar requirements so they cost relatively the same to make. I doubt we would allow a flood of ore to come in with no counter to adjust for it. In the end the outcome of more nodes would pretty much amount to your bags filling up faster.

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No, you've got it wrong.

It is never the ore or bars that are the slowing agent in any crafted item that requires materials such as bars or stone. Quite simply, gathering them is the easy part. It's the same with skinning (largely). The slowing factor is always a rare or uncommon drop. In the case of BC patterns, it is often the Primals that are the most time demanding part of any receipe.

Increasing the ore from mining nodes would not, for the most part, affect the market in the game.

It is and always has been, the frequency of rare drops that affect the rate at which certain items are produced. A perfect example is that of Imbued Netherweave Robes. All the materials for these are very easy to come across and can be secured in large quantities. Except Netherweb Spider Silk. It has about a 5-10% chance to drop per kill. And 2 are required to make the item in question. This then is the throttle on that item. They are easily outclassed by other items, are widely regarded as a leveling pattern, and most importantly a source of further materials.

These items disenchant into Large Prismatic Shards and I make them on my tailor to send to my brother's enchanter to ensure a steady supply of shards for enchants. Green drops provide the rest of our enchanting materials - which we have in abundance.

Certain materials will always be a choke point for the market, and increasing the flow of subsidary materials will have little effect beyond making certain items which are nice but not essential, more available (such as sharpening stones, weightstones and so forth).

Some would argue that increasing the flow of ores from nodes would see more gems on the market. I would argue that the increase would be small and the flow on effect largely negated by demand. Jewelcrafters are some of the wealthiest crafters on a server.

WoW professions have always felt 'incidental' to me. That is, they do not require dedication in any form to reach the maximum level. If you merely gather what you see, you will eventually accrue enough materials to level your skill and attain the cap.

Increasing the rate at which base materials are gathered does not change the fundamental fact that it is not these materials which are largely responsible for the leveling of professions. Nor would increasing the rate at which these level increase the rate at which certain items appear in a server economy. There are after all maximum levels of crafting and gathering professions for character levels. You're not going to see level 40 characters crafting epic BC patterns.

Some thought on increasing the amount returned per node would be nice, as mining is perhaps the most time intensive gathering profession, especially for the returns in professions like blacksmithing.

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Q u o t e:
I believe there should be more mithril and thorium nodes in the game. They sell too much for old world mats already because of their sparcity, and I was unable to hit 300 mining before outland.

I had to go back at 70; wasting just about every node I passed by in Outlands =/ Not exactly something I enjoyed having to do.

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Exactly my situation! I don't have time to go mess around trying to find those few and far between thorium nodes out in the middle of nowhere. There needs to be more Thorium veins.

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Q u o t e:
Hey,

I just felt the need as I ride in circles in the Hinterlands... Tanaris... Searing Gorge... Etc... Grinding Mithril, in any event, to make a post to get one single question answered.

Why is it so hard?

No other gathering profession has the same problem as miners - That is, you will have a very difficult time outleveling Skinning or Herbalism, especially Herbalism. Heck, I was a 370 herbalist before I set foot in outlands. Presuming you skin mobs you kill... Well there are beasts everywhere. Mining nodes are rare. They give one skill up, but you have to cast 3 times... And each time you get one ore. NO OTHER PROFESSION HAS THIS PROBLEM. And furthermore, nodes for either of the others are ridiculously easy to find, and you get 3 or however many per extraction.

Furthermore, both jewelcrafting, engineering, and to a much greater extent Blacksmithing require copious amounts of these materials... I note blacksmithing, because the last few points (360-375) are almost impossible, and you can literally spend a whole day farming to get one (Which is fine, cause being a blacksmith sucks anyways).

QQ.

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I have NEVER heard a miner complain about lack of ore nodes before you.

Fact: Mining is more lucrative and makes more money than any other gathering profession, hands down. Period.

Even in Azeroth there are nodes everywhere. Mining nodes are NOT rare you just have to know where to look (hint: mountains).
Oh no you have to click a node two maybe three times. That extra strain on your clicking finger must be so terrible.

Herbalism you have a CHANCE to get 2 or 3. Not 3 everytime. And with herbalism you don't have a chance to herb blue gems or other such useful items. Fel Lotus, and that's about it.. and that's super rare. And you can't prospect herbs to find rare herbs either.

Every miner I know on my server is filthy rich. Because of mining. So quit complaining.

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Q u o t e:
Concerning there being some leveling bumps for mining nearing the end of pre-BC, it's planned to be smoothed out along with other professions. Some professions have already seen changes in this regard, and we're certainly planning to continue them so that there's no need to stop leveling, go back and a zone, and do circuits until you're caught up. That really shouldn't be necessary, and yes, isn't fun.

In general those changes mean lengthening the amount of time each type of ore would give skill ups, so that you can consistently get skillups or even go a bit beyond where you should be for your level before you have to move on, smoothing the transitions.

Maybe that was really the main issue and spawning some lesser complaints, I don't know, he never came back to post again.

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Perfect. I think this change will go a long ways. Any idea as to when it might be happening?

Leveling all the "teamed" gathering/crafting skills, I don't see a problem so much on the gathering side of the mining-XXX (smith / JC / Engie / Alchemist) combos as I do on the crafting side of things.
However, the worst (which is why I mentioned it) has been blacksmithing in my own case.
Perhaps my eternium luck is just horrid.
Not quite so bad for the other mining-related crafting skills.

However, it's just silly that limitations seem to be put in place on both sides by (possibly) 2 different teams.

Mining team limits eternium drops and sets bars to 2 ore per eternium bar, then sets fel steel to 2 bars.
Blacksmithing team sets minimum piece requirement (gloves) to 6 fel steel bars.
So each glove takes 24 eternium ore.
To get this, I have to sell or prospect 200-300 adamantite ore since it's pretty much useless above 355 or so.
At 100 nodes mined per glove and every other miner out there competing, I still have 8 points to go to finish armorsmithing to 375.
In the meantime, I've leveled herbing to 375, dropped it and leveled tailoring 1-375 on my mage and finished this more than a month ago.
Did similarly with enchanting and leatherworking on other alts.
The main limitation for my BS is simply materials... always has been.
Since the other crafting skills aren't quite so impacted as the various smithing sets, perhaps someone should look into fixing smith?

If she wasn't my first-ever character (20nov04) and BS wasn't her first-ever "real" skill... and if I wasn't so pig-headed stubborn about this sort of thing... I'd have dropped BS years ago when I first figured out how messed up the leveling is in relation to other gather/crafter combos.

Mining is fine. I love mining. I have had no trouble whatsoever leveling up my mining skill so I really dotn get wtf you are complaining about.

My problem is with leveling blacksmithing. There arent enough thorium recipes out there that dont use an insane amount of metals and other materials to make, so getting through the 260-300 phase is proving to be a geniune pain in the ass. Ill have to spend weeks farming throium to get through it and im too bust leveling. Lessen the required mats to make stuff IMO, but not the high end stuff of couarse, just the low end %!#@ty stuff.

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Q u o t e:


understand economics and you will see why they wont add any more nodes to the game.

lazy players want EVERYTHING to be achieved with NO EFFORT.

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Please make me understand economics then. Teach me wise one. Make me understand how a little more ore per realm, and lower prices on the AH would cause such a catastrophe the likes of which has never been seen. I mean... if there's more nodes, then you'd offset your loss per stack because you'd have more stacks to sell. And it wouldn't be more work, since the nodes are easier to find because there's more of them. Please tell me how horrible this is, because I clearly don't understand. Or do you simply like to just post little quips and pretend that you're in on a secret that no one else knows?

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Q u o t e:
Concerning there being some leveling bumps for mining nearing the end of pre-BC, it's planned to be smoothed out along with other professions. Some professions have already seen changes in this regard, and we're certainly planning to continue them so that there's no need to stop leveling, go back and a zone, and do circuits until you're caught up. That really shouldn't be necessary, and yes, isn't fun.

In general those changes mean lengthening the amount of time each type of ore would give skill ups, so that you can consistently get skillups or even go a bit beyond where you should be for your level before you have to move on, smoothing the transitions.

Maybe that was really the main issue and spawning some lesser complaints, I don't know, he never came back to post again.

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*ding* Drysc just levelled to 69.

Your skill to read between the lines has been maxed!

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Q u o t e:


So you save 8 seconds per-node or so? I don't see that actually making any difference. It's just a feel thing, we like having differences between the gathering professions and how each one feels. One you're picking all the leaves off a plant, another you're chipping away bits of rock and pulling out gems and ore.



Well, technically speaking if more ore was coming in, most likely everything would have to be raised in their ore/bar requirements so they cost relatively the same to make. I doubt we would allow a flood of ore to come in with no counter to adjust for it. In the end the outcome of more nodes would pretty much amount to your bags filling up faster.

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Seriously, take a look at the demand vs. supply for each resource type. I don't have the numbers because I don't work for Blizzard, so it would be nice if you could provide this.

(# ore required to level from 1-375 for Blacksmithing + Engineering + JC) / (# ore nodes available in all of Azeroth)...do this for each type of ore/gem, ignore extraneous mats

(# herbs required to level from 1-375 for Alchemy) / (# herb nodes available)...for each type of herb

for leatherworking do # available beasts
for enchanting, do x% of green drop yields (not all greens get d/e) + y% BOP blue/purple drop yields (get d/e more). Anyway, you get the idea.



OR you could just look on the AH and use that as a proxy and substitute the mat availability with gold cost.