Here is a thread that has been ongoing, about the poor AT&T routing to Deathwing, from the Western U.S., causing high ping/latency:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2517893495&sid=1

Here are some pings to the jump off points for various servers, demonstrating just how bad the AT&T routing is up to Blizzard/Deathwing, compared to other servers:


First is Public Test Realm:

C:\1111>ping -n 20 12.129.193.242

Pinging 12.129.193.242 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=242
Reply from 12.129.193.242: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=242

Ping statistics for 12.129.193.242:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 17ms, Maximum = 31ms, Average = 20ms




Secondly is Ursin:

C:\1111>ping -n 20 63.241.193.14

Pinging 63.241.193.14 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=53ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=53ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=54ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=53ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=52ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=53ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=67ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=52ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=55ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=54ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=65ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=239
Reply from 63.241.193.14: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=239

Ping statistics for 63.241.193.14:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 50ms, Maximum = 67ms, Average = 53ms




Lastly DeathPing:

C:\1111>ping -n 20 12.130.0.174

Pinging 12.130.0.174 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=98ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=106ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=104ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=97ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=104ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=97ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=97ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=95ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=96ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=95ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=94ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=95ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=97ms TTL=233
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=233

Ping statistics for 12.130.0.174:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 94ms, Maximum = 106ms, Average = 98ms


PTR = Average ping - 20ms, very fast!

Ursin = Average ping - 53ms, decent/acceptable

DeathPing = Average - 98ms, nearly twice as high as Ursin, and 5 times as high as PTR.

It's because of AT&T's outdated routing, which is documented in the thread above.

This wouldn't be so much of a concern if it were just www. content from a web server, but this is sustained bidirectional data transfer for a computer game.

The excessive hopping + lack of performance of the hops, is unacceptable/inappropriate for that purpose.

So you want Blizzard to fix AT&T's problem?

---

Q u o t e:
So you want Blizzard to fix AT&T's problem?

---

It's not "AT&T's problem", it's MY "problem" because I am a WoW subscriber with multiple toons on DeathPing.

AT&T couldn't care less how bad/outdated/inadequate the routing scheme for DeathPing is, they still get paid. I am NOT AT&T's customer directly, but Blizzard is.

Blizzard is AT&T's customer, I am Blizzard's customer.

I am asking Blizzard to use the leverage they should have with AT&T ( as a major customer, I would think) to get the route updated, so that Blizzard can provide ME, with the "reasonable" service, that I pay for through my WoW subscription every month.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable in my request.

If WoW were free to play, I wouldn't even ask, but it isn't.

in this case blizzard are a receiver of the service, sort of like the mail man delivering you a letter

the are not an at&t customer, your ISP pays at&t for the bandwidth and are a customer, they have to issue a ticket

De mortuis nihil nisi bonum

---

Q u o t e:
in this case blizzard are a receiver of the service, sort of like the mail man delivering you a letter

the are not an at&t customer, your ISP pays at&t for the bandwidth and are a customer, they have to issue a ticket

---

Huh? You think Blizzard doesn't have an ISP? That the Internet is free for their servers?

No, AT&T is Blizzard's ISP, believe me. Do a "whois" on all the 12.xxx.xxx.xxx IP addresses that get us to the servers. They belong to AT&T..

Here.. I'll save you the trouble:

Result for 12.130.0.170

--> /usr/local/bin/fwhois 12.130.0.170@whois.arin.net
[whois.arin.net]
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
CERFnet ATTENS-BOS1-1 (NET-12-130-0-0-1)
12.130.0.0 - 12.130.63.255

That is DeathPing's IP addy: 12.130.0.170

---

Q u o t e:


Huh? You think Blizzard doesn't have an ISP? That the Internet is free for their servers?

No, AT&T is Blizzard's ISP, believe me. Do a "whois" on all the 12.xxx.xxx.xxx IP addresses that get us to the servers. They belong to AT&T..

Here.. I'll save you the trouble:

Result for 12.130.0.170

--> /usr/local/bin/fwhois 12.130.0.170@whois.arin.net
[whois.arin.net]
AT&T WorldNet Services ATT (NET-12-0-0-0-1)
12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
CERFnet ATTENS-BOS1-1 (NET-12-130-0-0-1)
12.130.0.0 - 12.130.63.255

That is DeathPing's IP addy: 12.130.0.170

---

I know at&t are blizzards ISP, but in this case they are not the customer, your buisiness uses DHL and a supplier sends you a package via DHL and it doesn't turn up who has to chase them you or the supplier?

in this case it is your ISPs job

De mortuis nihil nisi bonum

Here are more ping stats from DeathPing's jump off point:

Pinging 12.130.0.170 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=117ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=98ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=189ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=245ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=302ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=133ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=104ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=111ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.170: bytes=32 time=104ms TTL=235

Ping statistics for 12.130.0.170:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 98ms, Maximum = 302ms, Average = 126ms


Anything over 65ms would be considered SLOW for an MMORPG, DeathPing averages almost TWICE that.

---

Q u o t e:


I know at&t are blizzards ISP, but in this case they are not the customer, your buisiness uses DHL and a supplier sends you a package via DHL and it doesn't turn up who has to chase them you or the supplier?

in this case it is your ISPs job

---

So, Let me get this straight:

Blizzard pays AT&T for Internet connectivity for their servers, but Blizzard is not AT&T's customer. I pay Road Runner (one of AT&T's competitors) for Internet connectivity, so therefore I am AT&T's customer?

Is that how it works?

if you want to deliberatly not understand what I wrote in fairly simple terms fine, I'm not going to argue with you, just sit back and enjoy your high latency and wait for blizzard to do your isps job, I really don't care

De mortuis nihil nisi bonum

---

Q u o t e:
if you want to deliberatly not understand what I wrote in fairly simple terms fine, I'm not going to argue with you, just sit back and enjoy your high latency and wait for blizzard to do your isps job, I really don't care

---

I'm mostly kidding with you man, you're not seeing how it works: I have NO leverage with AT&T, neither does Road Runner (my ISP), we are NOT AT&T customers.

Blizzard IS a large customer of AT&T's, they could get something done.

Here's a shipping analogy ( which you used):

You buy a product from me, I pay UPS to have it shipped from point A (my factory) to point B (random mid point), you pay DHL to have it picked up and shipped from point B, to point C (your location), somewhere between point B and point C it gets lost.

For you to say -I- or UPS need to find the product, when it was YOU and DHL who were involved in losing it, is not reasonable. YOU need to contact DHL and get it located. I can't do it, I'm not DHL's customer, AND,UPS and I got it to point B which ended my obligation, UPS and I are not DHL's customer.

That's more what it's like..

My ISP gets me to hop 6, very fast.

Level3 Comm gets me from hop 7, to hop 9, very fast.

AT&T takes over at 10, all the way through to Blizzard jump off at hop 21.

At hop 11, all hell breaks loose, and latency becomes AWFUL!


Tracing route to 206.17.111.83 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 15 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 7 ms 5 ms 7 ms 10.58.0.1
3 6 ms 9 ms 6 ms 24.161.194.45
4 10 ms 9 ms 8 ms cpe-24-161-194-1.bak.res.rr.com [24.161.194.1]
5 33 ms 18 ms 18 ms cpe-24-161-192-77.bak.rr.com [24.161.192.77]
6 29 ms 21 ms 19 ms GIG2-0.TUSTCA1-RTR1.socal.rr.com [66.75.161.158]

7 18 ms 25 ms 28 ms te-1-4.car1.Tustin1.Level3.net [4.79.140.1]
8 32 ms 21 ms 32 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.69.132.218
]
9 24 ms 22 ms 26 ms ae-11-51.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.68.102.1
2]
10 22 ms 27 ms 25 ms 192.205.33.225
11 101 ms 105 ms 100 ms 12.127.3.222
12 100 ms 105 ms 100 ms tbr2.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.10.13]
13 106 ms 104 ms 112 ms tbr1.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.9.141]
14 107 ms 100 ms 102 ms tbr1.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.10.29]
15 109 ms 101 ms 105 ms cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.16.5]
16 106 ms 100 ms 103 ms cr2.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.3.37]
17 103 ms 100 ms 104 ms tbr2.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.16.206]
18 101 ms 104 ms 105 ms tbr1.cb1ma.ip.att.net [12.122.10.21]
19 100 ms 104 ms 100 ms 12.127.5.109
20 121 ms 104 ms 102 ms 12-122-254-14.attens.net [12.122.254.14]
21 103 ms 104 ms 102 ms mdf001c7613r0004-gig-12-1.bos1.attens.net [12.13
0.0.174]
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

Bumping

You need to contact your ISP and notify them of the problem.

Edit: Wait.... you are complaining about a ping that is under 200ms? This is more than fine for a MMO. Are you having a specific connection issue?

---

Q u o t e:
You need to contact your ISP and notify them of the problem.

Edit: Wait.... you are complaining about a ping that is under 200ms? This is more than fine for a MMO. Are you having a specific connection issue?

---

This is NOT in-game ping. These stats translate into 280-320ms in-game, which is HORRIBLE. It's only in the Western U.S. that DeathPing performs soooo badly, because of the way AT&T is routing us. Eastern U.S. subscribers get 30-60ms latency, on average in-game.

In PvP, you may already be dead (clothies!), by the time you know you're being targeted/attacked with terrible latency like this.

---

Q u o t e:
You need to contact your ISP and notify them of the problem.

Edit: Wait.... you are complaining about a ping that is under 200ms? This is more than fine for a MMO. Are you having a specific connection issue?

---

Scroll up for an explanation of why random ISPs can't fix AT&T's routing schemes..

---

Q u o t e:


This is NOT in-game ping. These stats translate into 280-320ms in-game, which is HORRIBLE. It's only in the Western U.S. that DeathPing performs soooo badly, because of the way AT&T is routing us. Eastern U.S. subscribers get 30-60ms latency, on average in-game.

In PvP, you may already be dead (clothies!), by the time you know you're being targeted/attacked with terrible latency like this.

---

QFE

heres my trace


Tracing route to 206.17.111.83 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 34 ms 19 ms 13 ms cpe-76-90-64-1.socal.res.rr.com [76.90.64.1]
2 14 ms 21 ms 12 ms 76.166.6.69
3 16 ms 55 ms 54 ms tge9-3.bwlaca1-rtr2.socal.rr.com [76.166.1.6]
4 33 ms 26 ms 16 ms tge9-2.bwlaca1-rtr1.socal.rr.com [76.166.1.4]
5 80 ms 20 ms 20 ms tge2-2-0.lsanca1-rtr1.socal.rr.com [66.75.161.201]
6 21 ms 44 ms 21 ms GIG2-0.TUSTCA1-RTR1.socal.rr.com [66.75.161.158]
7 28 ms 23 ms 18 ms te-4-1.car1.Tustin1.Level3.net [4.71.104.157]
8 40 ms 31 ms 33 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.69.132.218]
9 50 ms 28 ms 44 ms ae-11-51.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.68.102.12]
10 27 ms 24 ms 21 ms 192.205.33.225
11 104 ms 103 ms 100 ms 12.127.3.218
12 100 ms 140 ms 103 ms tbr1.sffca.ip.att.net [12.122.10.25]
13 101 ms 100 ms 109 ms tbr1.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.5]
14 103 ms 104 ms 140 ms tbr2.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.9.134]
15 97 ms 104 ms 103 ms tbr2.cb1ma.ip.att.net [12.122.10.105]
16 124 ms 99 ms 121 ms 12.127.5.89
17 101 ms 98 ms 115 ms 12-122-254-14.attens.net [12.122.254.14]
18 99 ms 103 ms 100 ms mdf001c7613r0004-gig-12-1.bos1.attens.net [12.130.0.174]


also of note, my ingame ping is never better than 250ms :( big frowny face considering im in LA, California and deathwing is a Mountain time server. If I were in New Zeland, I would expect these pings.

---

Q u o t e:

also of note, my ingame ping is never better than 250ms :( big frowny face considering im in LA, California and deathwing is a Mountain time server. If I were in New Zeland, I would expect these pings.

---

This is unconfirmed, but I've heard the DeathPing endpoint: 206.17.111.83, is actually in New York..

Who knows..

This is actually the most significant data:

This is pinging the jump off point where Blizzard takes over, it's simply pinging the last hop at Blizzard's front door:

C:\1111>ping -n 20 12.130.0.174

Pinging 12.130.0.174 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=113ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=104ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=119ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=109ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=109ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=106ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=104ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=98ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=104ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=235
Reply from 12.130.0.174: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=235

Ping statistics for 12.130.0.174:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 98ms, Maximum = 119ms, Average = 103ms


Anything over 65ms is considered slow. Our average: 103ms

I think that puts us in the "painfully, ridiculously slow" category..

---

Q u o t e:


This is unconfirmed, but I've heard the DeathPing endpoint: 206.17.111.83, is actually in New York..

---

Deathwing is actually located in the Boston, MA data centre.