So exactly why

Is it that everyone who even afks in arenas and bgs gets points no matter how terrible they are, gets to accumulate those points, and then gets to spend them at a vendor to get exactly what they want 100% sure..........

But in pve you have to spend huge amounts of time and gold.....and be successful.....to merely have a chance that possibly maybe.......something drops you can use.....and possibly maybe you are the high roller/bidder?


Tell me exactly how this is fair?

Could this be why so many are doing bgs and arenas now......and fewer and fewer are continuing to do pve?

I now do both, but in pvp it is ridiculously easy and cheap as compared to pve, and I have seen a number of very good pve raiders say they were giving up on pve and just focusing on pvp as a result.

Is this what is wanted?

In the old honor grind you could give your life to it and end up with some gear approximating T2. The system was way too hellish. Blizzard has attempted to remove Blizzard-created hellishness from the game by making solo grinds easier. The problem is that player-created hellishness still exists for those of us who aren't doing high-end raids, and probably for many who are.

Ideally, you should be able to solo, PvP, 5-man PvE, or raid, get similar gear each way, and experience a similar degree of challenge to get the gear.

As of now PvE solo will get you one or two ilevel 95-105 epics, 5-man PvE will get you a few more 110 epics, a successful Kara raid will get you epic'd out in 115-125, and doing PvP will get you 126-136 epics if you spend some consistent time doing PvP.

This is distinctly not the same, and I hope there is a solution for this, and that the solution doesn't involve simply giving people even more stuff for even less effort.

The game is improving. It used to be that if you didn't raid you could either spend 60 hours a week PvPing for epics, farm rep for essentially no reason, or farm 5-mans for blue items. At least now there is some tangible reward for rep farming and 5-man instancing. There needs to be even more of this stuff.

It is very nice that we got all of these wonderful new instances, but the Azeroth instances, every last one of them, went into the toilet at level 70, and this doesn't have to have been the case. When the expansion comes out, Outland is on track to be a similar type of nearly depopulated wasteland. Let the game keep firing on all cylinders for those of us who want to log on some random evening and have a challenging experience. We need more instances, an even richer variety of things to do in these instances, and possibly something that would rehabilitate the old instances.

I have never seen the inside of Naxx, but I read a pre-BC article about how the designers were very proud of it. Some of the other instances are beautifully done and very rich, but there is no reason to go there. I liked Scholomance, but since BC has been out I think I have been there maybe once. Give me a reason to go back there, and give others enough reason that I can find a group.

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Q u o t e:
So exactly why

Is it that everyone who even afks in arenas and bgs gets points no matter how terrible they are, gets to accumulate those points, and then gets to spend them at a vendor to get exactly what they want 100% sure..........

But in pve you have to spend huge amounts of time and gold.....and be successful.....to merely have a chance that possibly maybe.......something drops you can use.....and possibly maybe you are the high roller/bidder?


Tell me exactly how this is fair?

Could this be why so many are doing bgs and arenas now......and fewer and fewer are continuing to do pve?

I now do both, but in pvp it is ridiculously easy and cheap as compared to pve, and I have seen a number of very good pve raiders say they were giving up on pve and just focusing on pvp as a result.

Is this what is wanted?

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The raiders that Blizzard cares about, are the raiders who don't give a flying leap about how PvPers getting their PvP gear. This tends to be most raiders. The raiders who raided simply for gear, are the ones who quit raiding and now PvPing. In other words, raid because it is fun, PvP because it is fun or because you just want gear.

Quit worrying about how other people are getting gear. Play this game to have fun, and do things that are fun to you.

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Q u o t e:
Tell me exactly how this is fair?

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Doing different things provides different rewards. You're supposed to enjoy what you choose to do.

PvP and PvE are very different play choices.

I think the PvE loot system blows, but if you're thinking about not raiding because you can do something else for the same or better reward, you probably aren't actually that interested in raiding in the first place.

It seems to me there are legitimate concerns that before TBC the raid loot blew away the people who only did PvP, that the casuals do not have the time to spend to do top end raiding, and that some wanted more PvP. I do not think the solution is to keep things like they are now.

The loot system in pvp could be used in pve. This would balance things between pvp and pve, and it would also allow the more casual a chance to get truly good pve epics.

I have suggested that the pvp system be used in pve instances, with points unique to that instance being accumulated by every member of the group or raid that kills a boss. More points for harder bosses, and those points can only be used to purchase at the unique vendor for that instance, who only has the loot available for that instance for purchase. Higher level loot on that loot table requires more points.

I fail to see why pvp players should be able to get epics at the tier 5-6 level for next to no time or effort, but pve players must have a huge amount of time and gold....AND.....24 others.....of like mind.....just to have a damn chance of a frigging random drop.....and then still must win the roll or bid.

I like PvE best because of the challenge and the teamwork. I also like the rewards.

I like PvP for a change, but being a Holy Priest, Blizzard made it pretty tough on me to raid PvE and still survive in PvP. So I had just given up on it rather than have to respec every time and pay the huge price of all that, until I noticed you got given top pvp epics for next to nothing in arena.

So now I do both. But the comparative cost of gear between pvp and pve is hugely imbalanced in favor of pvp.

Something should be done, and yes, we have already lost good pve raiders, who said that was the reason.

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Q u o t e:
So exactly why

Is it that everyone who even afks in arenas and bgs gets points no matter how terrible they are, gets to accumulate those points, and then gets to spend them at a vendor to get exactly what they want 100% sure..........

But in pve you have to spend huge amounts of time and gold.....and be successful.....to merely have a chance that possibly maybe.......something drops you can use.....and possibly maybe you are the high roller/bidder?

Tell me exactly how this is fair?

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Its not fair..and ill tell you why.

Afk'ing botting in arena/bg gets you banned...(maybe not arena since people will enjoy your points) lol
In pve you dont have to spend huge amounts of gold, unless your bad, and time...the worse you are the more time you'll spend.

If you actually spend the time to do the arenas, and or Bg's...you would realize that it takes a bit more then 0 time to get free epics..
You'd realize that it takes (from what your saying i guess your bad in pvp) about 12weeks to get a weapon via arena

Also as to why people are doing more arena less pve....because season 3 is coming out soon; people are stockpiling there honor, tokens, and arena points now.

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Q u o t e:

Its not fair..and ill tell you why.

Afk'ing botting in arena/bg gets you banned...(maybe not arena since people will enjoy your points) lol
In pve you dont have to spend huge amounts of gold, unless your bad, and time...the worse you are the more time you'll spend.

If you actually spend the time to do the arenas, and or Bg's...you would realize that it takes a bit more then 0 time to get free epics..
You'd realize that it takes (from what your saying i guess your bad in pvp) about 12weeks to get a weapon via arena

Also as to why people are doing more arena less pve....because season 3 is coming out soon; people are stockpiling there honor, tokens, and arena points now.

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As of the last patch there is a way to report afk people. It takes a sufficient number to do the report, and with the battle going on, and other factors, it really is not all that effective. I do know about this because pre-TBC I was exalted in AV, and have done it a good deal since. There is still no anti afk thing for the other bgs. I also have done them a good deal, though I disliked WSG.

You have no real experience to speak from about gold in doing pve, and you are flat wrong, unless all you do is farm content someone else got on farm for you.

I started arena play with friends' alts halfway thru the present season, I have 2 pieces of merciless gladiator and the points already for a third. I started with -0- level 70 pvp gear and -0- resilience, and I still have a personal winning record. When next season comes and I am geared up and playing with my friends' mains....they all hold titles btw....I will be after the shoulders and thw weapon, and I expect to get them both.

There is an arena calculator. I already made a thread about exactly what it took. For 5 pieces = or > tier 5 plus a BT level two hander the points required is 12,000. On a 5v5 with a 1300 rating you would get 300 points a week and it would take 40 weeks. Believe me when I tell you that it will take 99.7% longer in pve upper end raiding to get the equivalent. Check out the posts on how few have even stepped foot into BT.

And yes, people are stockpiling.....including me.

In my opinion: With the introduction of the simplified PVP loot system, the PVE loot system should be revamped. Give people points for killing bosses and assign points required to attain items. Each dungeon could have its own points and items or share them with the higher level bosses awarding significanly higher points.


Edit: OMG, I GOT A FIRST! That means the ADHD people might actually read my post! I should say something profound and incredibly insightful.

Buff Mages! Nerf Warlocks!

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Q u o t e:
In my opinion: With the introduction of the simplified PVP loot system, the PVE loot system should be revamped. Give people points for killing bosses and assign points required to attain items. Each dungeon could have its own points and items or share them with the higher level bosses awarding significanly higher points.


Edit: OMG, I GOT A FIRST! That means the ADHD people might actually read my post! I should say something profound and incredibly insightful.

Buff Mages! Nerf Warlocks!

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You mean....honor badges?

Sure, honor badges for raids. ALL the loot should be available with badges, the same way arenas work. I would suggest that some bosses award more or less badges based on difficulty.

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Q u o t e:
So exactly why

Is it that everyone who even afks in arenas and bgs gets points no matter how terrible they are, gets to accumulate those points, and then gets to spend them at a vendor to get exactly what they want 100% sure..........

But in pve you have to spend huge amounts of time and gold.....and be successful.....to merely have a chance that possibly maybe.......something drops you can use.....and possibly maybe you are the high roller/bidder?


Tell me exactly how this is fair?

Could this be why so many are doing bgs and arenas now......and fewer and fewer are continuing to do pve?

I now do both, but in pvp it is ridiculously easy and cheap as compared to pve, and I have seen a number of very good pve raiders say they were giving up on pve and just focusing on pvp as a result.

Is this what is wanted?

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The content already caters to end game raiders anyways. What more do you want? Shut up.

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Q u o t e:
In my opinion: With the introduction of the simplified PVP loot system, the PVE loot system should be revamped.

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/signed

Specifically Dragonstrike .... muhahahaha!

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Q u o t e:


Here's the problem:

In PvP, you can get yourself to a high rating with skill and go buy the item you want.

In PvE, you can raid as much as you possibly can, clear every instance numerous times, and still never get the item you want because it never drops.

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Themz is the brakes

I say, you can loot whatever the boss you killed is wearing.

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Q u o t e:
So exactly why

Is it that everyone who even afks in arenas and bgs gets points no matter how terrible they are, gets to accumulate those points, and then gets to spend them at a vendor to get exactly what they want 100% sure..........

But in pve you have to spend huge amounts of time and gold.....and be successful.....to merely have a chance that possibly maybe.......something drops you can use.....and possibly maybe you are the high roller/bidder?


Tell me exactly how this is fair?

Could this be why so many are doing bgs and arenas now......and fewer and fewer are continuing to do pve?

I now do both, but in pvp it is ridiculously easy and cheap as compared to pve, and I have seen a number of very good pve raiders say they were giving up on pve and just focusing on pvp as a result.

Is this what is wanted?

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So you are complaining about being able to get comparable gear from either PvP and PvE whichever you consider to be fun?

How is that a bad thing?