World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Tanking and Survivability Changes

Crygil

Blizzard Poster

0. Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:38:04 PM PST

We are making some adjustments to tank survivability based on what we’re seeing in Icecrown Citadel. We feel this is particularly important in preparation for upcoming Heroic attempts. This is tricky and occasionally subjective, so we might very well make more adjustments as we get even more data.

Paladin:

Sacred Duty now provides 2 / 4% Stamina, down from 4 / 8% Stamina. The cooldown advantages of the talent remain unchanged.
Death Knight:

Frost Presence now provides 8% Stamina, up from 6% Stamina.

Icebound Fortitude now provides 30% base damage reduction, up from 20% damage reduction. For a geared tank with high defense, this translates to 50% damage reduction, up from 40%.

It’s important to note that we aren’t trying to single out paladins here. We like the tank balance of warriors and druids at the moment, and we have a larger sample size of warrior tanks that we can compare. Another solution would have been to buff warriors, death knights and druids and then increase boss damage accordingly. Obviously, that would have been a much larger change with greater risks and a longer delay.

Though Ardent Defender is always a possible target for changes, we like that this talent provides such a distinction between warriors and paladins. Rather than have all the tanks have the same health, armor, avoidance and cooldowns, we’d rather have four unique tanking classes rather than just superficial or artistic differences. Yes, that design is harder to balance, but we think class distinction is ultimately more interesting, which is better for the long term health of the game. The goal remains to have all four tanks be viable for any encounter, assuming sufficient gear and skill, and any differences in performance on individual encounters to be minor. “Minor” is obviously a subjective term.

Please note that the death knight change will result in a small survivability increase in PvP, which we think is appropriate. We chose it partially with that in mind.

[ Post edited by Crygil ]

Mr. Cool, Mr. Right, Mr. Knowitall is through
Now my future’s so bright and I owe it all to you
Who showed me the light...

Aurora

< Lets Go Burgling >

Arthas

1. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:39:42 PM PST

woohooo!

What is happiness?

Foxhound

< Methodical >

Arygos

2. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:41:03 PM PST

Q u o t e:
woohooo!

Heltamr

< Blades Of Rage >

Malygos

3. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:41:21 PM PST

but but, RUNE COSTS!?

WHY NOT REMOVEDERZ THEM!?

WHY?

"Yo dawg, I heard druids can't dodge no more."
- Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Skinless

< Misfits >

Cho'gall

5. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:43:21 PM PST

I guess I can stop leveling my prot paladin (lvl 71) now that they are no longer OP

wait a second this 4% stam nerf did virtually nothing to tank balance in terms of EH and overpowered talents. I'll be 80 soon, I can't wait.

Holytrogdor

< Fillmore Beaver Boyz >

Dentarg

6. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:43:24 PM PST

Sad Day... =(

Édgewalker

< CUTIES ONLY >

Kil'jaeden

7. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:44:25 PM PST

Thanks. Still a couple of quality issues that I hope you look at soon, but other than that solid changes that don't jump the shark like the last round of nerfs or the first major paladin buffs did.
Small changes are better changes.

Edit - Didn't post from my DK, but w/e.
Rune Costs still NEED to be removed from tanking talents.
DK 2 piece still needs to be totally reworked.

[ Post edited by Édgewalker ]

Best tank, at every tanking class, ever.
Edgewalker #1 4 Lyfe

Aindreas

< Save the Murloc >

Thorium Brotherhood

8. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:44:51 PM PST

Now go fix that lie of a tooltip on the talent. ;)

Mammacita: Did someone say cheese? Cos if y'all making a cheese run, count me in!
Thargy: wat lvl
Aindreas: Thargy, this is a Heroic Cheese Run. So 80s only.
Thargy: oh

Frzn

< Not Steamboat >

Thaurissan

10. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:46:04 PM PST

nice.

Grumthar

< Abuse >

Scilla

11. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:46:58 PM PST

Q u o t e:
nice.

look, its my favorite gnome.

Fasc

< Decidedly Uncouth >

Bleeding Hollow

13. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:47:35 PM PST

Keep us informed. Thanks.

●█████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ <MANGLE!!!>
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Fasc, Plaguelust, Dynavox, and Fasciky

Vulpes

Runetotem

14. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:48:55 PM PST

Thanks for the update.

Now could you, by any chance, address the mob pathing bug that affects all tanks?

Harbînger

Jubei'Thos

15. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:49:34 PM PST

Just after you spend months farming up frost emblems day after day from random heroics with incompetent and abusive players. Just after you spend months farming your butt off in both 10 and 25 man ICC, just so you can get a few nice upgrades from badges, and what do they do?

"Hey, thanks for playing World of Warcraft, in order to show our appreciation for depositing your hard earned money into our accounts over the past few months (or last 5 years if you want to look at it that way), we want to offer you a 4% stamina nerf to your beloved spec. Sorry we could not inform you prior to us implementing this change, but we thought it best to leave it as a surprise, enjoy!"

Now after all this work and all those hours spent crunching numbers to calculate the best possible gear, I'm back to exactly where I started. Can't say I'm sympathetic to concerns about tank equality anymore if this is how people are to be treated because of it. I just want to tank and have my efforts rewarded. There has to be some better way to do this then constant nerfs. I shudder every time Blizzard says they are going to make an ability more appealing, because it never means that the ability is to be changed for the positive, it only means it's competition will be nerfed to near uselessness to make it the only thing worth using.

I'm not saying Paladins won't be fine because obviously they are still a strong class. I just want me last few months of hard work back.

Barrier

< Rocket Surgery >

Tanaris

16. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:50:36 PM PST

Q u o t e:

So uhhhh....

Anub adds?

Encounter, not position. A DK can tank Anub, just not the burrowers.

Q u o t e:
If all else fails, buffs will be available soon enough, allowing you to crush Professor Putricide, see his oozes driven before you, and hear the lamentation of his abominations.

Zarko

< Way of the Wicked >

Skywall

17. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:50:42 PM PST

Real question is, why now?

Not from representation, I'm almost certain of it.

Kalisti

< BIoodIine >

Frostmane

18. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:51:00 PM PST

So...how high of an IBF reduction could a DK who stacked defense get now?

Givememore

Doomhammer

19. Re: Tanking and Survivability Changes 02/04/2010 10:52:02 PM PST

I love it but for the love of god remove the rune cost on the talented tanking CDs pl0x kthxbye <3

Forum > CLASS ROLES > TANKING