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Q u o t e:
Resilience and Spell Pen will continue to be PvP stats.

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You've gone a long way making Res more desirable in PvP to all classes, not just casters/healers. Can you apply that treatment to Spell Pen? Either everyone needs it to some degree, or no one does? As it stands it's just more itemization points that DPS casters (and DKs) have to spend, and certain classes are free to ignore it and stack damage - it's unfair.

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Q u o t e:


The post you cited left out tanks, which have at least one more stat: block rating, and possibly bonus armor above and beyond the AC value derived by the item level and it's base type.

So we'll have 6 desirable stats to everyone else's 4 (assuming dodge and parry rating cleanly replace crit and haste).

I'm curious to know what will be happening there, particularly regarding block rating, which itself is a stat that only 2 of 3 plate tanks can use.

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Block [whatever] is going to be changing. So I wouldn't assume that we'll still want that, I actually would tend to assume it will be handled exclusively through mastery. It will also function more like armor. I have a feeling parry and dodge might also be handled through mastery, but we'll see.

Bonus armor will, I assume, be something of a special case. Like if there were a DPS gear that had extra strength allocated. I don't think it will be something we'll worry about.

So as tanks we'll want:
Expertise, Hit, Mastery ... and ... strength? Agility?

Stam and armor will just "appear" on all tanking gear. What does that leave us with?

It wouldn't surprised me if Parry becomes a substat of Strength, and Dodge of Agility, and the associated ratings just disappear.

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Q u o t e:


And that's why this is an excellent time to change back and fix what was wrong.
However if resilience stop affectting crits and dots, and become - % player damage only, i'm good.

The way it is right now screws up class specs who need critical hits.

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I suppose the blues have never made this clear, the bolded part is working as intended, it's a knob they can turn to reduce the DPS of a class that does too much damage in PVP, make more of their damage crit dependent. Haste/SP/AP/etc cannot be tuned this way, and Resil is a flat % damage decrease which affects all specs equally. If you want Resil removed you either want to stack crit and global people (not good design) or you don't really understand what you are asking for (making the pvp balance game harder).

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You are not mistaken. Everyone also gets stamina, armor, and their primary stat (Str, Int or Agi). Resilience and Spell Pen will continue to be PvP stats.

This is not set in stone either. Cataclysm isn't finished.

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Any chance that Spell Pen/PvP resists will be examined? Right now spell pen is required in order to deal with certain classes, but has no benefit vs others. On top of that there's an itemization issue in terms of trying to get "beginner" spell pen gear.

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Q u o t e:


I suppose the blues have never made this clear, the bolded part is working as intended, it's a knob they can turn to reduce the DPS of a class that does too much damage in PVP, make more of their damage crit dependent. Haste/SP/AP/etc cannot be tuned this way, and Resil is a flat % damage decrease which affects all specs equally. If you want Resil removed you either want to stack crit and global people (not good design) or you don't really understand what you are asking for (making the pvp balance game harder).

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Which in turn favors classes that don't rely on crit based procs.

Think for a second, why are ret paladins so gimp right now, aside from lack of offensive utility?
Art of War relies on crits.

What's the point of resilience against an ability like Lava Burst or Cold Blood (which at least has a long CD)?

Unless you really think that those classes are perfectly balanced around those effects critting (which can't compare to talent procs that rely on crits).

I'm a better.

I'm betting this is what happens to tanks:

From: Armor, Dodge, Parry, Defense, Hit, Expertise, Shield Block Value, Shield Block Rating

To:
Armor, Dodge, Parry, Hit, Expertise, Mastery

Mastery for Warriors and Paladins will effect Block ratings / values
Mastery for Druids will effect something like Savage Defense (*or a generalized form buff to bear/cats simultainously)
Mastery for DKs....no clue, maybe rune regeneration or a new mechanic :p

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Q u o t e:
I'm a better.

I'm betting this is what happens to tanks:

From: Armor, Dodge, Parry, Defense, Hit, Expertise, Shield Block Value, Shield Block Rating

To:
Armor, Dodge, Parry, Hit, Expertise, Mastery

Mastery for Warriors and Paladins will effect Block ratings / values
Mastery for Druids will effect something like Savage Defense (*or a generalized form buff to bear/cats simultainously)
Mastery for DKs....no clue, maybe rune regeneration or a new mechanic :p

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So do you think Stam will be considered the primary tank stat?

In which case, don't forget Strength and Agility from your list. I'm still betting on those replacing parry, dodge, and shield block of all sorts.

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Q u o t e:


You are not mistaken. Everyone also gets stamina, armor, and their primary stat (Str, Int or Agi). Resilience and Spell Pen will continue to be PvP stats.

This is not set in stone either. Cataclysm isn't finished.

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I hope your plan to keep healers hooked on regen is really good then.

Fake Edit: How about mp5?

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Q u o t e:


You are not mistaken. Everyone also gets stamina, armor, and their primary stat (Str, Int or Agi). Resilience and Spell Pen will continue to be PvP stats.

This is not set in stone either. Cataclysm isn't finished.

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Slight hijack for a second...

GC, please reconsider the resistence system for PvP in Cata. The team stated that Master Demo was too OP, yet gave MORE spell pen to mage armor and arcane talents -- which stack with other resistences! Mage + Priest Buff = well over 200 spell resistence to 1 school, which basically locks out Shadow based spells (and whole speccs too!).

Please, just take spell resistence (and thus, spell pen) out of the game completely. Continue on with thread...

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Q u o t e:


You are not mistaken. Everyone also gets stamina, armor, and their primary stat (Str, Int or Agi). Resilience and Spell Pen will continue to be PvP stats.

This is not set in stone either. Cataclysm isn't finished.

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For the record, having to cap spell pen and hit rating for PVP is lame when casters are the only ones who have to do it.

And since spell pen is a "PVP" stat now, it needs to be slighter easier to come by then balancing PVP around gems alone.

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Q u o t e:

I hope your plan to keep healers hooked on regen is really good then.

Fake Edit: How about mp5?

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Mp5 is gone, wrapped into spirit...

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Q u o t e:


For the record, having to cap spell pen and hit rating for PVP is lame when casters are the only ones who have to do it.

And since spell pen is a "PVP" stat now, it needs to be slighter easier to come by then balancing PVP around gems alone.

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Having hit rating and expertise is lame too.

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Mp5 is gone, wrapped into spirit...

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I either missed or forgot that, that's cool.

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Q u o t e:


Having hit rating and expertise is lame too.

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No melee stack expertise in PVP and there are no such thing as parry/dodge buffs/auras you can place on your teammates. You melee destroy the PVP in the game.

Im wondering what they are going to do to Fel Armor and Glyph of Life Tap so that warlocks will no longer want to stack spirit. Spirit is currently the 2nd best stat for a warlock. Its better than both haste and crit, so most warlocks are stacking significant amounts of spirit these days. What will happen to this gear in 4.0? We're going to need to know how to gear ourselves in ICC, otherwise when the 4.0 switch is flipped a good portion of our gear could become worthless.

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Q u o t e:
Im wondering what they are going to do to Fel Armor and Glyph of Life Tap so that warlocks will no longer want to stack spirit. Spirit is currently the 2nd best stat for a warlock. Its better than both haste and crit, so most warlocks are stacking significant amounts of spirit these days. What will happen to this gear in 4.0? We're going to need to know how to gear ourselves in ICC, otherwise when the 4.0 switch is flipped a good portion of our gear could become worthless.

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I doubt it.

I would assume that either a) you will retain your spirit -> DPS talents and abilities or b) it will be handled like the paladin changes going from 2.4 -> 3.0. That being that all our old protection and ret gear was simply reitemized in that patch to support the new stat system. All my spell power and defense plate went to strength and defense, etc.

There were a few casualties, pieces I wore to tank that were "supposed" to be ret and/or holy pieces, etc. And I had to get a new sword because that didn't change. But you get the idea.

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Q u o t e:


That was suggested during BlizzCon (implied, admittedly rather than outright stated). Which means that their either throwing out LifeTap completely, or changing it's scaling mechanics *again*.

I'm going to guess that they simply stop worrying about it scaling with a stat at all and make it give x% maximum mana for some ratio of that amount in HP (which indirectly means scaling with int, admittedly, but that also is in line with their goals, it seems).

The real question is if when they push the 4.0 patch pre-Cata (as they certainly will, they've done it both xpacs so far), what will they do to existing gear? Will it simply get the new stats and run with it for better or worse? More specifically, what about the fairly significant amount of "healer cloth" that Warlocks tend to use, will the restating of gear for the 4.0 push discriminate between "Priest wearing spirit/haste cloth" and "Warlock wearing spirit/haste cloth"?

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i kinda feel like they will make some caster and some healing...not sure how, but in BC when they changed to spell power..all gear had spell power instead of damage/healing when they gave us the talents.

How would you feel about a stat that's primary purpose is to increase the bosses chance to miss, similar to what defense does now, just to give you another way to differentiate items.