The interesting and lengthy thread about the officer who watched a fellow officer berate a member into tears inspired me to post on something that's been on my mind for a while.

Basically, how do all of you handle it when you recruit someone you just don't care for?

My guild doesn't have too many specific rules when it comes to conduct. Basically, don't discuss race, politics or religion in any sort of open chat, don't try to poach members, and don't expect the guild to gear you. But I'm even thinking of instances where someone's conduct doesn't violate even the broadest "don't be a jerk" kind of rule. I'm talking about when you just plain don't like a trial member, and you find that several others feel the same way. What do you do? Especially in the cases like the one described on the other thread where the trial member really seems to like you.

Kate, I think it kinda all depends on the type of guild. Hardcore raiding guilds don't really require you to like everyone...just have steady or fast progression you know?

But more casual raiding or social guilds....that is where the overall atmosphere of the guild culture (chat, raids, website) becomes much more important.

In my guild we have a 2 week trial period..time to find out if a guild member can fit into our guild atmosphere or not. Bascially, I have had to ask a few members to leave because they were not well-liked and they seemed to cause a damper in our overall guild well-being.

I think it is absolutely important for a GL and the officers to protect the guild atmosphere by removing members that are not liked and/or cause the overall guild satisfaction to go down by having members refuse to raid/activity with them, log in less and less because of a certain person.

We tell all new recruits that the trial phase is a two way street; they get to know us and see if we are a good fit for them, and we get to know them and see if they are a good fit for us.

Even if a member does not break any particular rules..if they are bringing down the guild atmosphere/satisfaction they need to be removed. Sometimes a GL needs to be the bad guy for the good of the guild.

Don't like a trial member?

Remove them.

It took me a while to realize that the people I didn't like, well, they weren't going to be a good fit for my guild. And they never were. Self-fulfilling prophesy or not, they'd always be a cringe-fest, just waiting for that moment when I could bring down the hammer and berating myself for not just ditching them in the no-harm, no-foul trial period.

It makes it harder if people you like and trust and value like the new app, but trust me, go with your gut.

Is there a reason?

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Q u o t e:
Don't like a trial member?

Remove them.

It took me a while to realize that the people I didn't like, well, they weren't going to be a good fit for my guild. And they never were. Self-fulfilling prophesy or not, they'd always be a cringe-fest, just waiting for that moment when I could bring down the hammer and berating myself for not just ditching them in the no-harm, no-foul trial period.

It makes it harder if people you like and trust and value like the new app, but trust me, go with your gut.

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THIS. SO THIS. lol

I once made the mistake of hanging onto someone that I really just disliked overall. He was a fantastic, dependable raider, but whiny and moody and had that whole 'woe is me' attitude that I just couldn't stand. I kept him, knowing that he would get on my last nerve one day, because I didn't really feel as though I had a reason NOT to keep him.

Three months later when I had finally had enough, I kicked him and started the first (and only) real crapstorm that my guild ever endured. He had had enough time to make friends in the guild and be seen as a highly active raider. We didn't lose any other members over it but I'm sure I don't want to know how close we came to just that.

Bottom line: NEVER ignore your gut feelings about someone. Don't hesitate to remove people that you feel 'just don't fit' because if you let them stay long enough, they WILL make friends and it will more difficult on the guild as a whole when you get to the breaking point with someone.

On the other hand, we once took in someone that EVERYONE in the guild had some concerns about. Overall, his personality was pretty annoying at first, but there was just 'something' there that I liked and knew would mesh well with us. I had my entire officer team just screaming at me to get rid of this guy but I dug in my heels and told them to just wait it out. He turned out to be the most loyal, consistent and competent raider that I've ever come across. He would bend over backwards to help anyone but was very vocal about decisions he didn't agree with. He was a challenge for me as a GL because he made me justify every major decision I made, but after the decision was final, he'd be the first to back it up. He carved out a niche for himself in the guild and became a valued raider and a much loved person in our community.

You have to listen to your gut about those kind of people too. Too often guilds can get a 'herd mentality' and sometimes it's good to knowingly bring in people that will shake things up a bit and keep it interesting.

I have to agree with the people who said to trust your gut feelings.

I am an officer of a semi serious raiding guild and many times I have ignored my gut feeling about new members who just, for whatever reason, did not fit into our guild's culture. Every one of those people ended up alienating the other guildies, annoying the crap out of everyone, bringing vent/gchat to a standstill, soaking up gear and leaving. Each time I wished I had just kicked them when I had the chance. I don't know what problems you may be having with the guildies you or your guildmates do not like. For me, it was new members being obnoxious on vent, demanding of people's time, inability to be self-sufficient (e.g. constantly begging for runs and then insulting the guild when people were busy or declined), immaturity, using guild chat as their personal diary, only showing up to the "big" raids but never doing anything just to help other people out or be active in the guild's activities that did not equate to insta-epics.

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Q u o t e:
Kate, I think it kinda all depends on the type of guild. Hardcore raiding guilds don't really require you to like everyone...just have steady or fast progression you know?

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This is not true :) A lot of hardcore guilds have a "must be a good social fit" requirement. Mine (top100 US) is one of them. This rule holds especially true for hardcore guilds, I'd think, simply because you need to work together intensely as a team to defeat very difficult content. That's pretty difficult to do when you hate one another and don't like working with each other.

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Q u o t e:
I don't know what problems you may be having with the guildies you or your guildmates do not like.

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That's sort of what led me to post: we haven't been having real "problems." Nothing you can point to and say: we can't tolerate your greediness/your begging for a run through Dire Maul for alt ten times an hour/your insulting behavior towards the women in the guild/whatever anymore. For example, right now we have a guy who only comes to raids once every couple of weeks, has a tendency to tell the raid leader "how his guild on the other server does it" and often acts arrogant in chat, when he is around. This hasn't sat well with some people...but others don't care, and the fact is that there are other members who engage in this sort of behavior and no one has a problem with them.

Another guy is new to the guild and apped as dual-spec heals/caster dps. His first raid was this past weekend, he apparently did such a bad job as heals that he was told to switch to caster. We run a fixed-price DKP system with decay, so he wasn't eligible for much loot. He didn't seem pleased about that. We told him to roll on stuff anyway (that's how you express your interest in loot and how ties are broken). He rolled on quite literally every piece of caster gear he could eqip that weekend, which was considerable since he wasn't a clothy. Since then, he's only popped on for a few minutes at a time and ignores all efforts people make to get to know him, even including simple "hellos."

Is he an anti-social greedy jerk? Or, is he is a busy student with limited playtime who simply hasn't begun the process of blending in to the guild yet? And how can you say, "We're booting you because you rolled on too much stuff even though you were told to" or "You didn't read about our loot system so you're outta here". On one hand, we don't like to kick people and we want to be fair. On the other, at base, a guild is a social organization, and why tolerate the presence of someone you don't like?

You mentioned in the OP they were a trial member. You don't need to worry about reasons. That's why you have the trial period, to see if you want to take them in.

You obviously don't want to take them in. That's all the reason you need. Thanks for applying and trying out, but we've decided to go in another direction. Good luck! /gremove.

"If I believe the guild is better without you, then it is better without you."

We have a strict policy that if one current raider decides a player isn't a good fit for the guild, they are denied, no matter the utility or dps they bring. It's much more important to have somebody who won't take 5-7 upgrades and then /gquit with drama, as that's an overall loss of loot distribution that could go elsewhere.

Unlike real world hiring decisions, there's very little cost associated with recruiting or denying applicants in WoW. You can remove somebody at no cost besides the things your guild has given them, and accept a new member with little to no overhead. This means that if you 'just don't like' a player, you can 'just get rid of them'.

IMO it helps to have a handful of members from the guild make a call if a person stays or goes.
Pick those members to have some variety in their own personalities. Keep discussion short.
Once the members give their recommendation let the GM be the final judge to kick them.
I don't often kick members (I need to do more) but when I do I also let the guild know why and to whisper me if they have any question, that often cuts out the rumor mill.

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Q u o t e:
Thanks for applying and trying out, but we've decided to go in another direction. Good luck! /gremove.

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^ this

Over the year+ that <Unbridled> has existed, we've had less than a handful of these. One we removed during the trial period, the other four took several months. Every time, the atmosphere has improved. I've been tempted on many occasions to bump up our trial period from two to four weeks just for this reason. it's so much easier to remove a person during trial than it is to remove them later on.

And I'm glad at least one other person said it, we raid guilds do care about our atmosphere too :)

If its unanimous, then remove the player. No one wants to be in a guild where they are disliked through no fault of their own.

I help run a raiding guild, not a high school cafeteria. If I "just don't like a member," but that member is a good player, shows up to raids, and doesn't break rules (including those covering gchat, loot distribution, and vent), I keep my feelings to myself. Not everyone in the guild has to be my best friend, or fit my definition of fitting in. It's impossible to run a large, successful raiding guild with that kind of attitude.

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Q u o t e:
Don't like a trial member?

Remove them.

It took me a while to realize that the people I didn't like, well, they weren't going to be a good fit for my guild. And they never were. Self-fulfilling prophesy or not, they'd always be a cringe-fest, just waiting for that moment when I could bring down the hammer and berating myself for not just ditching them in the no-harm, no-foul trial period.

It makes it harder if people you like and trust and value like the new app, but trust me, go with your gut.

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Yep.

I don't have to do this very often, because my recruiting practices are by referral.

I thought the more interesting question in the thread is what to do when you have a long-time member or officer you just don't care for.

It's easy to remove a trial member you don't think fits in. "Look, it's the end of your trial period and we just don't think you fit in well here. Good luck, and thanks for trying out." Nobody's really friends with them yet, they don't have any attachments, everybody can move on and in a few months neither the app nor you will remember each other's names.

I thought the GL had a lot of guts to just outright boot the officer and others involved in the bullying, even though his own problems with that officer probably made it easier. After all, we've seen in the forum before the idea that the new member was gone, so it would be better not to rock the boat further by booting the bullies.

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Q u o t e:
I thought the GL had a lot of guts to just outright boot the officer and others involved in the bullying, even though his own problems with that officer probably made it easier. After all, we've seen in the forum before the idea that the new member was gone, so it would be better not to rock the boat further by booting the bullies.

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It sounded more like a necessary move that was overdue. Anyone calling someone out publicly in the guild is more interested in drama than finding solutions and shouldn't be an officer. Booting disruptive people is just part of a GL's job.

The guild had more of a problem than just an unpopular new recruit, cliques like that within a guild almost always end with some sort of rift, usually after some of the other members there just to play a game have tired of the hassles and gone inactive or left.

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Q u o t e:
I thought the more interesting question in the thread is what to do when you have a long-time member or officer you just don't care for.

It's easy to remove a trial member you don't think fits in. "Look, it's the end of your trial period and we just don't think you fit in well here. Good luck, and thanks for trying out." Nobody's really friends with them yet, they don't have any attachments, everybody can move on and in a few months neither the app nor you will remember each other's names.

I thought the GL had a lot of guts to just outright boot the officer and others involved in the bullying, even though his own problems with that officer probably made it easier. After all, we've seen in the forum before the idea that the new member was gone, so it would be better not to rock the boat further by booting the bullies.

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Totally agree with this. This is what the probation period is for.

We had an incident recently where an officer that everyone actually really liked but upon running an instance with a guildie got into some kind of tift with a member who is generally very kind and helpful. Anyhow he ended up just berating the poor guy telling him he didn't have a life and the usual lame slights people throw out there...I asked him one time to apologize, we don't have a lot of rules but one is just straight forward; respect your guildmates! Well he refused to apologize and logged off....he game back to no guild. He thought because he was an officer he get away with anything. Well he apologized and we let him back in. If I were the guild leader he wouldn't have ever gotten officer back but that wasn't my call. It was very embarrassing especially since we just had a new recruit and here is an officer throwing a temper tantrum. Shameful.