I think it is clear that the current concept of a set bonus is well past its use by date. The latest nerf to the shaman T9 4 set bonus is only the most recent example of why the current set bonus method needs to be changed. Some suggestions that are way more logical;

1 Fix the set bonus for all tiers for each xpac. Build all the "omfg I want to upgrade" stuff into the items themselves.

2 Remove the set bonus all together and just give each tier item an extra gem slot.

3 Make it so that an extra minor inscription slot opens for 2 set and a major one opens for the 4 set bonus.

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Q u o t e:
I think it is clear that the current concept of a set bonus is well past its use by date. The latest nerf to the shaman T9 4 set bonus is only the most recent example of why the current set bonus method needs to be changed. Some suggestions that are way more logical;

1 Fix the set bonus for all tiers for each xpac. Build all the "omfg I want to upgrade" stuff into the items themselves.

2 Remove the set bonus all together and just give each tier item an extra gem slot.

3 Make it so that an extra minor inscription slot opens for 2 set and a major one opens for the 4 set bonus.

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Then people simply don't change their gear set at all until they have the next tier's 4-set.

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Q u o t e:


Then people simply don't change their gear set at all until they have the next tier's 4-set.

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that's already been happening for a bit.

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Q u o t e:


that's already been happening for a bit.

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...but it doesn't solve anything. People get tier for the interesting flavor and potential increase in effectiveness. Sometimes tier bonuses are a flop. You don't have to take tier if you don't want it - there are off-pieces for every slot.

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Q u o t e:
Then people simply don't change their gear set at all until they have the next tier's 4-set.

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Make them like PvP bonuses, regardless of ilevel, they all count towards a set bonus. Problem fixed.

(I personally like the different bonuses every tier, but there's an easy solution to your problem)

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Q u o t e:



Another thing about the PVP gearsets is that most of the fun set bonuses are procs of some sort, which would introduce more RNG into PVP, which is probably something that needs to actually be reduced.

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More RNG? This game is RNG.

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Q u o t e:
I think gear might get really boring if you didn't have set bonuses (and perhaps trinkets) to look forward to.

Somewhat boring gear is okay... to a point... in PvP, where you need to strike a balance between skill and gear. Players want to enter PvP thinking they have a relatively level playing field, but we still use the gear reward as an incentive to participate.

PvE gear is already relatively inflexible on primary stats. If anything I wish there was more variability from tier to tier. Players have become pretty intolerant though of gear that doesn't feel like an unambiguous upgrade. That's not intended as an insult to anyone. It's just the state of a five year old game. :)

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I like set bonuses that allow me to have fun with a spell, however when a set bonus is used to a point where it makes or breaks a class and makes a noticeable difference as to where they stand against other dps for example, then that just isn't fun anymore =(

It would be nice if we could have off-set pieces that have non-stat buffs. Think weapon procs, or trinkets. More fun for everybody, if implemented right.

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Q u o t e:
I think gear might get really boring if you didn't have set bonuses (and perhaps trinkets) to look forward to.

Somewhat boring gear is okay... to a point... in PvP, where you need to strike a balance between skill and gear. Players want to enter PvP thinking they have a relatively level playing field, but we still use the gear reward as an incentive to participate.

PvE gear is already relatively inflexible on primary stats. If anything I wish there was more variability from tier to tier. Players have become pretty intolerant though of gear that doesn't feel like an unambiguous upgrade. That's not intended as an insult to anyone. It's just the state of a five year old game. :)

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Wait! What!? You want us to have to determine the difference between 'Higher iLvL' and 'Upgrade' on our own.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

... *wink*

I just wish boots were part of sets again.

The existing set bonuses are honestly a bit blah and very hard to balance among different specs. I think if you split up the bonuses a bit more it would make it easier to deal with and more interesting in that it gives us more choices. More smaller 2 or 3 piece sets with minor but interesting buffs. Tiny things like a proc or an extra gem slot or the existing gem slots in certain pieces of the set become prismatic or add to the gem bonus or something. You could make the matching piece of a set be an emblem reward or even a crafted item to mix it up...heck make it a quest for an epic feel. Take it a bit further and use each profession to divy out the equipment slots and each provide some sort of added buff to a set. Or put it all together and make it an epic item set enhancement quest that sends you off to fight some vile creature out in the real world (not an instance) to be summoned by the quest to get some material that the crafter needs to enchant to enable the item bonus or craft the final item of the set that includes the bonus (perhaps even takes the other pieces as required materials for the quest).

Ok, that's enough free tips for you today :)

An idea that I had was to have the set bonuses become part of the class each new tier. I think it would be an interesting concept to have say: a DoT gain the ability to crit through the set bonus, and then the next tier, it become a talented effect.

Don't suppose this could ever be a possibility eh?

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Q u o t e:
PvE gear is already relatively inflexible on primary stats. If anything I wish there was more variability from tier to tier. Players have become pretty intolerant though of gear that doesn't feel like an unambiguous upgrade. That's not intended as an insult to anyone. It's just the state of a five year old game. :)

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Is that really such a bad thing, though?

Part of the fun of new content is becoming stronger so that you can take on new fights. It's not much fun if the new, supposedly stronger content doesn't really make you all that much stronger.

I mean, you don't want to get to the point where every piece of new gear is "old piece + 3 of every stat" - having a variety of gear means you can try to figure out how each item fits in with your overall set and maybe use the less obvious stuff (like hit/expertise gear, etc) it to fill in gaps, and all that is cool.

But tier sets? Those you should be able to say right off the bat "yeah, that's an upgrade". Afterall - they not only give you a lot of stats, but they're the best visual indicator of "leveling up" your character to the new tier of content, so not being excited about them makes the whole regearing part of the game feel a little less fun for that tier.

Gearing is only a small part of the game, but it's part of it nonetheless.

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Q u o t e:
I just wish boots were part of sets again.

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I agree, it's hard sometimes to get even a 2 set going when you are replacing an already good non-tier item (ie. hard mode item replaced by next tier). There should be more slot options for getting a set bonus like there used to be.

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Q u o t e:
I think gear might get really boring if you didn't have set bonuses (and perhaps trinkets) to look forward to.

Somewhat boring gear is okay... to a point... in PvP, where you need to strike a balance between skill and gear. Players want to enter PvP thinking they have a relatively level playing field, but we still use the gear reward as an incentive to participate.

PvE gear is already relatively inflexible on primary stats. If anything I wish there was more variability from tier to tier. Players have become pretty intolerant though of gear that doesn't feel like an unambiguous upgrade. That's not intended as an insult to anyone. It's just the state of a five year old game. :)

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Well you can get away with it to an extent if you design set bonuses that increase the value of specific stats.

eg. elemental t8 had two bonuses that encouraged crit, and was a good opportunity to stack a little more crit on than usual.

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Q u o t e:



I mean, you don't want to get to the point where every piece of new gear is "old piece + 3 of every stat" - having a variety of gear means you can try to figure out how each item fits in with your overall set and maybe use the less obvious stuff (like hit/expertise gear, etc) it to fill in gaps, and all that is cool.

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Old piece + 3 wouldn't necessarily be a bad design exactly, consider that if they did indeed do that they could keep a tight leash on gear inflation and stop things like avoidance from getting too high. Stat inflation is why they are adding icecrown radiance, by doing that and scaling the gear a specific way then everything could be kept under control and would never scale too high.

I personally wouldn't mind new piece = old piece + 3 stats, not having to juggle gear and only having a single gear set would make things a lot easier.

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Q u o t e:
Players have become pretty intolerant though of gear that doesn't feel like an unambiguous upgrade. That's not intended as an insult to anyone. It's just the state of a five year old game. :)

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I don't agree with the conclusion. Why wouldn't you want AND expect the next "level" of item to be unambiguously better? Why bother making a next level then?

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Q u o t e:


I don't agree with the conclusion. Why wouldn't you want AND expect the next "level" of item to be unambiguously better? Why bother making a next level then?

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You are the exact reason for his quote. The item is better its just not an extremely obvious upgrade of every stat of the previous item. The total stats on the item are higher. Your disagreement with his conclusion confirmed his conclusion how sad for you.