World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Icecrown Radiance

Eldreden

< Puggin Aint EZ >

Mal'Ganis

40. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 01:17:57 PM PST

as a suggestion to blizzard gear should have just had only one avoidance stat (dodge, parry, block), an accuracy stat (hit or expertise) and def.

now in cata i with removal of def i hope to see only 1 avoidance stat and accuracy stat on all tanking gear to keep overall avoidance in order.

with the removal of def and depending on what happens to sbv they should replace the spot i suggested for def with either sbv or extra armor.

yes i know block isnt avoidance but avoidance is best term to use to group those three stats together.

Jaylaa

Emerald Dream

41. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 01:43:36 PM PST

Q u o t e:

The line of logic would implicate that they had not originally planned to do any other hard mode raids after Sarth+3 which is total BS. You can have all the game data in the world, and not do the right things with it. As people have stated GC probably knows more about the mechanics of the game than anyone of us, but having that knowledge, and making the right decisions is a totally different skill set.

So--- Blizzard devs need to stack moar Wisdom, and less Intel?

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

42. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 02:58:05 PM PST

It's an MMO. Stuff changes. If you want to play a game where the designers don't continually tinker with things to try and improve them, you might want to pick up a 10-year old game from the bargain bins. I'd be happy to provide my favorite list of classics. :)

Blizzard developers are our own greatest critics. We've changed our minds over and over on the best way to handle things -- the guys working on WoW long before I got here did the same thing. We take some forward steps and backwards steps, but overall I believe the game improves over time and most players I speak with think the same thing. (I know not everyone does, but you don't need to reply to this response to point that out.)

I think WoW would be in far worse shape today if we were still using the Molten Core-era class and raid philosophy. At the end of the day we think Icecrown will be a more fun place to tank knowing that bosses don't need to hit quite as hard to make up for your high avoidance. When we think something is not going to be fun like this, we try and make corrections. If any of you are so wise that you can clearly see the consequences of your design decisions many months away such that the patches you help release will be filled only with new content instead of bug fixes and course corrections, please send us your resumes. :)

Also, Greenkappa made me laugh. :)

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Frando

< Eternal >

Scarlet Crusade

43. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:03:33 PM PST

Q u o t e:
It's an MMO. Stuff changes. If you want to play a game where the designers don't continually tinker with things to try and improve them, you might want to pick up a 10-year old game from the bargain bins. I'd be happy to provide my favorite list of classics. :)

I'd actually love that. I still play XCom 2, Total Air War, Neverwinter, and Sim Golf.

-Formerly Jood, Draenei priest

Benthebright

< Santa Cruzers >

Cenarius

44. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:05:08 PM PST

Q u o t e:
I'd be happy to provide my favorite list of classics. :)

I'd be interested to see that. :)

Meerien

< Lydie ma chérie >

Shattered Hand

46. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:07:39 PM PST

Q u o t e:
I'd be happy to provide my favorite list of classics. :)

Do it.

Do it!!

DO IT!!!! *slams fist on table*

*glares*

Allow me to play you a requiem~

Caliban

< Firefly >

Thrall

47. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:10:06 PM PST

Q u o t e:
I'd be interested to see that. :)

Imma Bet:

Warcraft 1
Warcraft 2
Warcraft 3
Starcraft
Diablo (except the sequel made by Sierra)
Diablo 2

If everyone is thinking outside the box, the only way to be creative is to think inside it.

Kulasti

< Blacktooth Grin >

The Venture Co

48. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:13:17 PM PST

Q u o t e:
I'd actually love that. I still play XCom 2, Total Air War, Neverwinter, and Sim Golf.

Baldur's Gate 2 is pretty fun, even as old as it is.

C'thun may be a giant eyeball, but can he see why Kulasti loves Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

http://zaldinar.bounceme.net/tcom/ Theorycraft-o-Matic by Zaldinar

Slikk

< Enigma >

Shandris

49. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:15:16 PM PST

Q u o t e:
I'd be happy to provide my favorite list of classics. :)

I'd be really curious to see that too. :-)

My favs were Baldur's Gate, Wing Commander, and Mechwarrior.

Gunni

< Clarity >

Steamwheedle Cartel

50. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:17:56 PM PST

Q u o t e:
It's an MMO. Stuff changes. If you want to play a game where the designers don't continually tinker with things to try and improve them, you might want to pick up a 10-year old game from the bargain bins. I'd be happy to provide my favorite list of classics. :)

Blizzard developers are our own greatest critics. We've changed our minds over and over on the best way to handle things -- the guys working on WoW long before I got here did the same thing. We take some forward steps and backwards steps, but overall I believe the game improves over time and most players I speak with think the same thing. (I know not everyone does, but you don't need to reply to this response to point that out.)

I think WoW would be in far worse shape today if we were still using the Molten Core-era class and raid philosophy. At the end of the day we think Icecrown will be a more fun place to tank knowing that bosses don't need to hit quite as hard to make up for your high avoidance. When we think something is not going to be fun like this, we try and make corrections. If any of you are so wise that you can clearly see the consequences of your design decisions many months away such that the patches you help release will be filled only with new content instead of bug fixes and course corrections, please send us your resumes. :)

Also, Greenkappa made me laugh. :)

You have something go wrong once you get a Mulligan for it. You do the exact same thing again, and guess thats what it makes you look like? I understand this was a difficult desicision to make, but avoiding it in the first place would have been easier(get it "avoiding it") You make a major change with all the consequences not being understood by the gaming population your going to get this reaction no one knows which tank will really be hurt the most by this. You saying that you didn't know Uld hard mode gear and ToC would eventually have this effect seems like your saying you had no hard modes planned after Sarth +3 which I don't buy at all. I am going to guess that you have no real devils advocates in these meetings, and by that I mean someone in your group that is being harsh nearly to the point of being disrespectful. I am sure you have a highly cohesive group of people from simliar backgrounds that is very bad for making good desicions shake things up in everyone of your meetings if you want to avoid this.

Meerien

< Lydie ma chérie >

Shattered Hand

51. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:18:02 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Imma Bet:

Warcraft 1
Warcraft 2
Warcraft 3
Starcraft
Diablo (except the sequel made by Sierra)
Diablo 2

Oh, that would be just like GC. A joke answer, how cute.

But no, that would never be true, that would not be what I am seeking. I am an oracle my friends, I can see into the hearts of men. I have gazed deep into the abyss of GC's soul, and I know much of what drives him. I am positive, absolutely certain that his "list of classics" is a list of incredibly terrible, lame, poorly designed, and stupid games that criminally does not include the true masterpieces of the gaming world. The masterpieces that the Kings of Games such as myself hold in such high reverence. GC's gaze is one that is capable of picking out the worst and the dumbest of features and highlighting them, drawing our their true beauty from nowhere (this is just a metaphor they have no true beauty), while at the same time blatantly overlooking the truly brilliant artistic decisions, gameplay mechanics, and storylines.

Don't you dare run and hide from me GC, my gaze pierces all, I will see into the deepest depths of your heart one day, and see the nightmare lurking within

[ Post edited by Meerien ]

Allow me to play you a requiem~

Devilspartne

< Pantheon >

Hydraxis

52. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:23:55 PM PST

Q u o t e:
It's an MMO. Stuff changes. If you want to play a game where the designers don't continually tinker with things to try and improve them, you might want to pick up a 10-year old game from the bargain bins. I'd be happy to provide my favorite list of classics. :)

Blizzard developers are our own greatest critics. We've changed our minds over and over on the best way to handle things -- the guys working on WoW long before I got here did the same thing. We take some forward steps and backwards steps, but overall I believe the game improves over time and most players I speak with think the same thing. (I know not everyone does, but you don't need to reply to this response to point that out.)

I think WoW would be in far worse shape today if we were still using the Molten Core-era class and raid philosophy. At the end of the day we think Icecrown will be a more fun place to tank knowing that bosses don't need to hit quite as hard to make up for your high avoidance. When we think something is not going to be fun like this, we try and make corrections. If any of you are so wise that you can clearly see the consequences of your design decisions many months away such that the patches you help release will be filled only with new content instead of bug fixes and course corrections, please send us your resumes. :)

Also, Greenkappa made me laugh. :)

I would welcome a list of your recomended classics.

Edit: There is no sarcasm i really would.

[ Post edited by Devilspartne ]

By posting on an alt we get to assume you are a 1200 rated Death Knight who cant clear Spider WIng. Dont like it, you know how to fix it.

Meggan

< Bacchanalia >

Durotan

53. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:24:08 PM PST

I was a huge fan of Shining Force, FFIV, and Crono Trigger. Side note, I saw a Crono Trigger cartridge today for $150 at a retro video game stand. Thank goodness for the re-release.

Feandel

< The Spartan Legion >

The Scryers

55. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:25:40 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Blizzard developers are our own greatest critics. We've changed our minds over and over on the best way to handle things -- the guys working on WoW long before I got here did the same thing. We take some forward steps and backwards steps, but overall I believe the game improves over time and most players I speak with think the same thing. (I know not everyone does, but you don't need to reply to this response to point that out.)

To me personally, I think that rather than directly tacking on more defensive stats that has had unintended consequences, there should have been more offensive stats added to gear. Not merely more strength, but other DPS stats as well, like crit, agility (on plate that is, druids already have it), SBV, ArP, haste, etc. Doing this would have allowed your tanks to stack avoidance more gradually without feeling like a punching bag while the real DPS goes to work. Your tanks would generate more natural damage and thus more threat, which lessens the head-ache of threat production.

I'm actually rather curious how the stat overhaul is going to play out with Cataclysm now that the core defensive stats are largely going to disappear. If your talents are going to be the primary determining factor now, what is "tanking" gear going to look like? Or will it, in fact, be exactly the same as DPS gear? Will there even BE tanking gear anymore? Will the only difference between an arms warrior doing dps and a protection warrior tanking be the sword and board that the protection warrior is wielding?

- Like maces to the faces of the goat people from outer spaces -

___________"Save the horde, kill a blood elf."______________

Grulthak

< Horizon >

Staghelm

56. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:28:48 PM PST

Some of us DO like ToC. I know I do.

The people who I personally know who hate ToC are the same ones who hated Ulduar, Maly, Sarth, new Naxx, and most of the BC raids. They're the same ones who loved classic when BC was out, and loved BC when WotLK got released. The same ones who hated Ulduar right up until the release of ToC, and who will no doubt love ToC as soon as they raid ICC.

Not to imply that everyone is so fickle with their affections, but some people are hard to please and some of us (me, at least) are hard NOT to please. What can I say - I like raiding.

And the Lord said "Let there be lulz" and there was lulz. And the Lord also created the fail, which He separated from the lulz; and the lulz He called epic, and the fail He called pwned.

Hatesyou

< The Blood Bank >

Steamwheedle Cartel

57. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:31:22 PM PST

Here is some advice.

Deal with it, and press on it, nothing is going to chance.

Happy hunting in ICC

Frayya

< Window Lickin Good >

Arathor

58. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:47:47 PM PST

Heretics, no one answered Fallout or Planescape: Torment?!

Elorael

Silver Hand

59. Re: Icecrown Radiance - Incompetence or Arrog 11/03/2009 03:49:36 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Can't be what? ???

In any case, there is no denying these basic facts:

Blizzard designers knew the consequences of such high avoidance levels.
Blizzard designers gave loot with dangerously high avoidance levels anyway.
Blizzard designers had other loot options.
Blizzard designers chose not to implement any of those other options.
Blizzard designers stated they wanted to avoid implementation of a Sunwell Radiance effect.
Blizzard designers created a situation where implementing the Sunwell Radiance effect was nigh-inescapable.
Blizzard designers who planned so poorly are now re-designing the game from the ground up.

Coming from a software development background, I can tell you that redesigning from the ground up is effective, a very good thing, and regularly occurring.

When you come out with your competing MMO, we'll see how well you can predict the future. Till then, argue the change, don't argue the people.

I am a firm believer in Blizzard's new policy: Kick the player, despite the class

Forum > CLASS ROLES > TANKING