World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : )

Communism

The Underbog

40. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:27:47 PM PST

Q u o t e:

I agree AotD is useless in arena, but if you go back and read my OP this entire thread is about PvE.

PvP and arena is a completely different world to balance, where alot of spells aren't allowed at all, which is why I am not discussing it.

But you said the spells should be universally useful. I think you're starting to backtrack.

My stance is clear: Not every spell is going to be useful to everyone all the time. SS is fine.

80 Death Knight, Paladin, Rogue, Priest, Druid and Shaman
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Boulderfist&n=Communism
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/owndotexe/communism.jpg

Communism

The Underbog

41. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:29:10 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Sure. But...

1. It takes a GCD
2. It takes 5 rage

Still want it? Take it if so.

Sure I'll take it. I have open GCDs and I can pop it before a fight. However, the Flash of Light HoT thing needs to be converted to Death Strike.

80 Death Knight, Paladin, Rogue, Priest, Druid and Shaman
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Boulderfist&n=Communism
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/owndotexe/communism.jpg

Mandena

< Condemnation >

Andorhal

42. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:30:15 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Sure I'll take it. I have open GCDs and I can pop it before a fight. However, the Flash of Light HoT thing needs to be converted to Death Strike.

It lasts 30 seconds and procs once.

Death strike gains a 1.5 sec cast.

I have created the new version of faceroll.

I call it the...tongue poke.

Jaylaa

Emerald Dream

43. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:33:18 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Link please

Link? OK.

Q u o t e:
If it is for Holy, then put it in the Holy tree and put something in at level 80 that the entire class can feasibly use. And I'm with the poster above: the same should apply to all classes. How big of a let-down to hit 80 and find nothing useful waiting for you at the trainer. "I hit 80! WOW!!! Now I can--- do what I've been doing--- for the past 5 levels--- wee."

Q u o t e:
You know what? If that is the problem fine. But just make SS a holy talent or attached to a holy talent and give Pallys a universal level 80 spell.

The main point here is that ALL classes should have a universally useful level 80 spell, I am just approaching the idea as a Pally.

Q u o t e:
I think Army of the Dead is an AWESOME level 80 spell, as a matter of fact it is my favorite level 80 spell. This is the kind of spell all classes should get. Is it less useful than my current Sacred Shield? Yes. But I would rather have AotD for the cool factor and when you use it, it puts a big smile on my face.

But discussing the usefulness of the spells you listed is not relevant to my point. My point was SS is a good level 80 spell that is at least somewhat useful and fun for all specs.

I think that is a good model for all level 80 class spells. I think AotD is a good model for a level 80 class spell as well.

This is why not only do I not want to see SS changed or if it is Pallys given a new level 80 spell, but other classes given a novel useful level 80 spell as well.

I realize these posts were buried in dusty archives, completely inaccessible to those of you without the double-secret limited access I possess---

-- wait---

---anyway, the fact that this is not a paladin-specific problem was addressed by several posters.

Alpine

< US Horder Patrol >

Ner'zhul

44. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:35:45 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Link? OK.

I realize these posts were buried in dusty archives, completely inaccessible to those of you without the double-secret limited access I possess---

-- wait---

---anyway, the fact that this is not a paladin-specific problem was addressed by several posters.

It's going to be extremely hard to make an ability useful for all 3 specs of a hybrid without making it overpowered or useless for 1 or the other.

Making an ability for a pure class is a lot easier. Your class has 3 specs to cover.

Thank you Mario! You just saved the Princess! Now click on your UI and do it on Hard Mode!!

Mandena

< Condemnation >

Andorhal

45. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:38:04 PM PST

Blizzard dug themselves into a hole as soon as they implemented SS.

It originally was a PW:S that procced by itself and lasted 30 seconds and could be put on everyone.

Maybe if blizzard hadn't have implemented this ability as OP as it originally was...maybe we wouldn't be here wondering why they now want to make it useless for everyone but holys putting it on tanks.

Q u o t e:

It's going to be extremely hard to make an ability useful for all 3 specs of a hybrid without making it overpowered or useless for 1 or the other.

Making an ability for a pure class is a lot easier. Your class has 3 specs to cover.

You act as if SS was ridiculously op/stupidly useless before 3.3*. It is/was a good spell for all 3 specs after the first round of nerfs that made it single target/one per target.

It was only OP for the old protholy paladins with old TbtL as they had the ridiculous SP to scale it up and 2s arena wasn't dead. (Edit: and op pre-3.1 I think it was)

[ Post edited by Mandena ]

I have created the new version of faceroll.

I call it the...tongue poke.

Jaylaa

Emerald Dream

46. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:40:26 PM PST

Q u o t e:

It's going to be extremely hard to make an ability useful for all 3 specs of a hybrid without making it overpowered or useless for 1 or the other.

Making an ability for a pure class is a lot easier. Your class has 3 specs to cover.

Then maybe there is enough room in the internets for three level 80 spells per class? One for each spec? That can't be too much to ask, can it?

Mistreseliza

< MurlocPatrolBank >

Scilla

47. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:42:00 PM PST

Q u o t e:
I will gladly take it off your hands.

NO COMMUNISM HERE > : [ ]

I'd gladly donate half my vindicator though...

[Achivhore] "LFM Onyxia 10m, /w wit achivx"
[Mistreseliza] "I got [Slay The Pre Calculus II Exam!!!] [CH4 is not Polar!!] last week."
[Tradetroll] "Whut?"
[Mistreseliza] "I'm sorry, I'm casual :/"

Communism

The Underbog

48. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:46:37 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Then maybe there is enough room in the internets for three level 80 spells per class? One for each spec? That can't be too much to ask, can it?

It's enough of a nightmare to add 5 new spells per class each expansion, but you want more?

80 Death Knight, Paladin, Rogue, Priest, Druid and Shaman
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Boulderfist&n=Communism
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/owndotexe/communism.jpg

Mandena

< Condemnation >

Andorhal

49. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 02:50:11 PM PST

Q u o t e:

It's enough of a nightmare to add 5 new spells per class each expansion, but you want more?

I think blizzard should just stop it with new abilities and focus on changing current ones to fit balance needs.

I have created the new version of faceroll.

I call it the...tongue poke.

Lanikai

< Relentless >

Draenor

50. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 03:34:00 PM PST

The guy at the last Blizzcon who got into the question queue and did that whole "don't nerf me" thing was a %*!!ing nimrod.

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

51. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 03:44:22 PM PST

Q u o t e:
I disagree. There is way too much effort involved trying to add new tools to every single class, trying to keep them balanced, making sure the ability is useful for every spec, making sure it's useful in PvE on every single fight and making sure it's useful in every type of PvP situation.

Where do you draw the line?

We agree with Communism. We often give classes situational spells as base class abilities rather than as talented abilities for the same reason -- you're really only out a little gold by learning the ability. This is particularly a problem for hybrids. Nearly every rogue can find a use for Fan of Knives. Balance and Feral druids have much less use for Nourish. Heroic Throw is clearly a tanking tool.

On the one hand, yeah it's cool if a hybrid class can make use of their ability regardless of role. However some of our balance problems currently are caused by hybrids being able to do too many things to well with the same spec. If the tool is good for the role that's intended to use it, there's a good chance it's going to be too good for the other roles. That's why we often prop abilities up with spec-specific talents. One of the problems with the Holy paladin tree is it doesn't grant enough healing focus for investing in the tree. At the same time, paladins can heal very well so it's not as simple as just going into the deep tree and smearing a bunch of +healing effects on existing talents everywhere.

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Hugz

Ysondre

52. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 03:50:43 PM PST

Q u o t e:

We agree with Communism.

Gasp! GC is a communist!

Darielle

< is Being Carried >

Tanaris

54. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 03:54:07 PM PST

Q u o t e:

We agree with Communism

Out of context quote material.

>.>

Loot follows the Law of Inverse Need - The more you need an item, the less likely it is to drop. The corollary is what you need is guaranteed to drop when you are not in the group.

\o/ EmoBear

Communism

The Underbog

55. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 03:55:41 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Out of context quote material.

>.>

Also:

"Communism's definition of Sunwelling is the one we use."

80 Death Knight, Paladin, Rogue, Priest, Druid and Shaman
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Boulderfist&n=Communism
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/owndotexe/communism.jpg

Xzenor

Earthen Ring

56. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 03:59:55 PM PST

Q u o t e:
We agree with Communism

kewl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOxY_nHdew

My response to trolls

Durian

< Audacity >

Blackrock

57. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 04:00:44 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Heroic Throw is clearly a tanking tool.

I have many notches on my belt for killing blows with heroic throw =).

Most memorable being killing a pesky escaping gnome mage who thought he was safe after nova'ing me and blinking away in wsg while carrying the flag. I can't tell you how much I love Heroic Throw as a warrior although I wish the cooldown was shortened a bit.

Coldbear

< Renaissance >

Ravenholdt

58. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 04:02:04 PM PST

Q u o t e:

of the problems with the Holy paladin tree is it doesn't grant enough healing focus for investing in the tree. At the same time, paladins can heal very well so it's not as simple as just going into the deep tree and smearing a bunch of +healing effects on existing talents everywhere.

Wouldn't the logical end to the line of reasoning be that the healing spells for all paladins need to come down a notch at the same time as you DO "grant enough healing focus for investing in the [holy] tree"?

[ Post edited by Coldbear ]

I
...dreamed of un-scripted world pvp.
<RENAISSANCE> IS RECRUITING Holy Paladin Enh/Resto Shamans Warlocks
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/pv.php?t=3&l=parl2001

Terrem

< Misanthropic >

Silver Hand

59. Re: Don't Nerf my Sacred Shield Bro! : ) 11/02/2009 04:05:10 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Heroic Throw is clearly a tanking tool.

Not true! It's also useful for pulling an extra guy while soloing to drag into your Bladestorm of doom. :D

Healers -> Tank <-> Dragon <- DPS

Receive loot.

Forum > CLASS ROLES > TANKING