With the recent change to Army of the dead and the cooldown reduction via Night of the Dead, it somehow seems as though you are trying to get us to use it more often.

Currently, the most pristine time to summon AotD is on the pull just before the boss becomes active. With the shorter CD, some fights will allow for a second summon. However the 6sec channel is generally dps lost on some of the more movement heavy fights( Icehowl?).

My suggestion is to put a cast time reduction on AotD, possibly in Night of the Dead. 1.5/3sec would be more than enough to make the second summon worth it.

As well, putting it into NotD would ensure its duration as a emergency tanking CD is unaffected.

Discuss!

For one they could just reduce the cast time in Unholy/Blood Presence. Leave it as is in Frost.

Two, I gather with the damage reduction that they no longer intend it to be used as a DPS cooldown outside of the initial pull.

Not too overly concerned with the change either way. I believe a cast time reduction is warranted, but I am not so sure how necessary i believe it is.

Some fights have lapses of times where you may be able to cast AotD. Such an example would be Northrend Beasts.

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Some fights have lapses of times where you may be able to cast AotD. Such an example would be Northrend Beasts.

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There is one point on beasts though.

Best time to use Army. On icehowl before he hits the wall if its not near you. You should be able to start running to him just as he gets near the wall. RNG could prevent you from using this if he aims at you or across the map every time though.

Army not worth it there now. So yea, between bosses is probably the best time.

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Two, I gather with the damage reduction that they no longer intend it to be used as a DPS cooldown outside of the initial pull.

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Damage reduction was most likely due to cd reduction. AotD is a powerful Dps CD and with the reduction of its cooldown, the damage nerf was expected.

Also, if it were only to be on the initial pull, why bother bringing the CD down?

As it stands, Frost/Blood specs get to use this once every few bosses, Unholy on every one. With the change it will have Frost/Blood summoning on every fight and Unholy wishing it could warrant that 6sec cast for a second summon.

Ghouls are a big part of unholy dps, it'd be a shame not to be able to make use of this new shorter cd.

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Some fights have lapses of times where you may be able to cast AotD. Such an example would be Northrend Beasts.

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Pretty much requires that Icehowl(due to time its the only option on this fight) pick someone next to you just outside the range you will get hit on heroic.

Cast time + run time = no stun dps.

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Damage reduction was most likely due to cd reduction. AotD is a powerful Dps CD and with the reduction of its cooldown, the damage nerf was expected.

Also, if it were only to be on the initial pull, why bother bringing the CD down?

As it stands, Frost/Blood specs get to use this once every few bosses, Unholy on every one. With the change it will have Frost/Blood summoning on every fight and Unholy wishing it could warrant that 6sec cast for a second summon.

Ghouls are a big part of unholy dps, it'd be a shame not to be able to make use of this new shorter cd.

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With the cast time, 3 rune cost, and the damage reduction, I can't see myself casting this outside of the initial pull.

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Damage reduction was most likely due to cd reduction. AotD is a powerful Dps CD and with the reduction of its cooldown, the damage nerf was expected.

Also, if it were only to be on the initial pull, why bother bringing the CD down?

As it stands, Frost/Blood specs get to use this once every few bosses, Unholy on every one. With the change it will have Frost/Blood summoning on every fight and Unholy wishing it could warrant that 6sec cast for a second summon.

Ghouls are a big part of unholy dps, it'd be a shame not to be able to make use of this new shorter cd.

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Well, the CD was brought down because the are doing away with all 20 min CDs in favor of 10 min CDs. They also couldn't just make NotD not affect it.

Personally I think there are two possibilities. The first and most likely, they do not want to see Army have as much use as a dps cooldown. The second is that the 50% is a stand in number. They didn't like the idea of 2 armies as it is now in a single encounter so they lowballed it and will bring it up so it is about a wash.

The second doesn't seem very likely.

If they didn't want it to be used as a dps cooldown, they wouldn't have made the little buggers do so much damage.

If it existed solely as a tanking cd, the ghouls would do far less damage.

The idea that they don't want us to use an ability for dps is mildly absurd(no offense). Especially in the case of more or less a pet cd in a pet oriented spec.

Also, they could have easily made NotD reduce the CD of AotD by 1/2min like many of the other 20 -> 10min cd talents.

Unholy DPS is more than fine right now, there is no need to add AotD to their rotation more than once a fight.

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Unholy DPS is more than fine right now, there is no need to add AotD to their rotation more than once a fight.

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Except that most Unholys currently make full use of AoTD.

I'm in no way asking for a buff, just an equalization to its current effectiveness.

3.3 will require double the effort for the same 3.2 effect, I'm simply suggesting closer to the same effort for the same effect.

It doesn't even affect every fight, just those >6min in length.

p.s. Please don't make idle "unholy is fine" comments, no one said we were suffering. This is a simple discussion on AotD and its current/future use as a dps cooldown.

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Except that most Unholys currently make full use of AoTD.

I'm in no way asking for a buff, just an equalization to its current effectiveness.

3.3 will require double the effort for the same 3.2 effect, I'm simply suggesting closer to the same effort for the same effect.

It doesn't even affect every fight, just those >6min in length.

p.s. Please don't make idle "unholy is fine" comments, no one said we were suffering. This is a simple discussion on AotD and its current/future use as a dps cooldown.

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I said that they already use it at the start, if you start getting it up during the fight its a pure DPS buff that unholy does not need.

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I said that they already use it at the start, if you start getting it up during the fight its a pure DPS buff that unholy does not need.

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Damage on AotD is being cut in half, therefore its not a dps buff at the moment.

Edit: I will agree to it being a buff when Blizz gives us a >12min fight to get that 3rd army in.

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I said that they already use it at the start, if you start getting it up during the fight its a pure DPS buff that unholy does not need.

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You do realize that the reason Unholy is performing so well (on live) is just because of 4 piece T9 and the gimmick fights in ToGC, right?

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Damage on AotD is being cut in half, therefore its not a dps buff at the moment.

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If you get a free AoTD more than once a fight it is a DPS buff since you currently don't get it unless you use it at the start, even then its not a significant amount of damage currently so I have no issue with it.

If you take a spec that is doing fine and just give them a free X amount of minions a few times a fight its a straight linear DPS buff for a spec that is arguably to high as it is.

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You do realize that the reason Unholy is performing so well (on live) is just because of 4 piece T9 and the gimmick fights in ToGC, right?

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Gimmick fights only count when there are a couple, every fight in TOC and ICC except 1 is a "gimmick" fight, the real gimmick is single target fights.

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If you get a free AoTD more than once a fight it is a DPS buff since you currently don't get it unless you use it at the start, even then its not a significant amount of damage currently so I have no issue with it.

If you take a spec that is doing fine and just give them a free X amount of minions a few times a fight its a straight linear DPS buff for a spec that is arguably to high as it is.

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You are missing something apparently.

We'll say right now in 3.2 AotD does 50000 damage when summoned on the pull.

In 3.3 they will do 25000 damage for the same cast time.

I am simply suggesting a shorter cast time so that the second summon of AotD (that we get anyway mind you) get us equivalent damage to the current 3.2 version.

And to be fair, Unholy is really only "arguably to high" on fight with adds where cc is not an issue. It does however just so happen that the current "end game" fight is a very add heavy fight.

In the fight however the uses of AotD are quite limited due to there terrible taunt spamming nature. So your argument on fights where we are "too high" is a little misplaced.

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You are missing something apparently.

We'll say right now in 3.2 AotD does 50000 damage when summoned on the pull.

In 3.3 they will do 25000 damage for the same cast time.

I am simply suggesting a shorter cast time so that the second summon of AotD (that we get anyway mind you) get us equivalent damage to the current 3.2 version.

And to be fair, Unholy is really only "arguably to high" on fight with adds where cc is not an issue. It does however just so happen that the current "end game" fight is a very add heavy fight.

In the fight however the uses of AotD are quite limited due to there terrible taunt spamming nature. So your argument on fights where we are "too high" is a little misplaced.

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All end game fights have adds or something to "cleave" Even Ice Crown Citadel has a ton of add fights and 1 single target fight.

Once again, this in no way will noticeably raise the dps of Unholy, I'm not sure why you seem so concerned that it will.

It will simply bring 3.3 AoTD in line with 3.2 AotD for Unholys, with a slight loss in effectiveness even with a shorter cast.

Please go make an "Unholy dps is too high on add fights" thread if you wish to discuss that further.

Shortened cast-time (3sec) in UH or B Presence would be great.