Over it... seriously think that'll be the final straw for me to /cancel and not bother with the next expansion...

I've tried to locate an official notice abotu Lay on Hands, but can't find any, on the official patch notes, so i hope this is all some kind of horrible rumor..

I'd like a response from GC.. asap on this, Lay on Hands is an iconic ability that has been there since the early, early days, to have such a potent ability to HEAL that is now restricted so you can't even use it on yourself!?

That's complete madness...

Sacred Sheild, used to be a tanking talent, now it's of real use only by holy spec pallies!?

I'm all for understanding this whole business of 'class balancing', but for crying out loud even with an open mind i' can't for the life of me figure this out, these changes make no sense at all and sound like nothing more than a response to the torrent of QQ's from the warrior and tank forums.

Granted, 90% of the time I use LOH, it's on another tank (Warrior tank) that's about to die, but still..

This is unprecedented, a class with a powerful single target healing ability that can not be used on yourself?

same

I can't use Brez on myself! I demand that it be allowed or I shall ragequit!

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Q u o t e:
I can't use Brez on myself! I demand that it be allowed or I shall ragequit!

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Don't be silly. Lay on Hands is on a long, long cooldown, it used to burn up every last bit of mana you had to use. It's an iconic 'emergency' facility that allows you to save either someone else or yourself, it's almost a class defining ability.

Paladins are supposed to be literally amoungst the 'land one standing' crowed when the crap hits the fan.

If it is indeed an incomming nerf, I can see absolutely no PVE related balancing issues at all, the only place I could see this would be to fix up some percieved issue with that stupid Areana project that Blizzard insists on wasting time with.

I don't arena, nobody I know plays that stupid shell-game, yet we continue to suffer nerf and nerf (not just pallies, i play more than one class) because of it.

For crying out loud Blizzard, make the arena use a different set of base abilities and keep that rubbish out of the PVE game we all love spending time in.

Signed... very annoyed Pally (wonder how long till i'm banned again?)

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Q u o t e:


make the arena use a different set of base abilities

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I would hate this.

Why do people bring up Arena with these LoH threads? You couldn't use it in there anyway.

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Q u o t e:


Don't be silly. Lay on Hands is on a long, long cooldown, it used to burn up every last bit of mana you had to use. It's an iconic 'emergency' facility that allows you to save either someone else or yourself, it's almost a class defining ability.

Paladins are supposed to be literally amoungst the 'land one standing' crowed when the crap hits the fan.

If it is indeed an incomming nerf, I can see absolutely no PVE related balancing issues at all, the only place I could see this would be to fix up some percieved issue with that stupid Areana project that Blizzard insists on wasting time with.

I don't arena, nobody I know plays that stupid shell-game, yet we continue to suffer nerf and nerf (not just pallies, i play more than one class) because of it.

For crying out loud Blizzard, make the arena use a different set of base abilities and keep that rubbish out of the PVE game we all love spending time in.

Signed... very annoyed Pally (wonder how long till i'm banned again?)

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I don't arena, but it is a massive part of the game. And lay on hand isn't useable in arena anyway. But I like the idea of using two different tooltips for each ability, but this really isn't that huge of a nerf is it? It doesn't seem like it anyway. Probably barely noticeable.

Firstly OP: Can I haz your stuff?

And you know LOH is not currently usable in arenas.. so how can this change be based on that?

Edit: beaten to it

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Q u o t e:
Why do people bring up Arena with these LoH threads? You couldn't use it in there anyway.

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If that is indeed the case... why make it castable on everyone EXCEPT yourself!?

Well in that case, if what you say is true (and i have no reason to doubt you) then this is nothing more than an incredibly crude swinging of the nerfbat to Paladin tanks (and possibly rets), and pushes the Paladin into the role of trash/add tank leaving LOH to be used on Warriors who are the MT of the raid.

It's just stupid and makes no sense.

Heck, reduce it's heal%, put a cooldown on it, make it proc forbearance.. but to have an insta-cast heal that is no longer self-castable is just... so dumb I am literally gobsmacked.

Paladins couldn't use Holy Light on themselves in WC3.

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Q u o t e:

If that is indeed the case... why make it castable on everyone EXCEPT yourself!?

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Honestly I was always surprised that you could use it on yourself. In almost any other RPG system you care to name that has Paladins, the Lay on Hands ability is only able to be cast on others. WoW has been an exception for a long time.

You'll get over it. Stop sulking.

LoH HAS to be a mistake, but are you seriously upset about Sacred Shield?

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Q u o t e:
... but this really isn't that huge of a nerf is it? It doesn't seem like it anyway. Probably barely noticeable.

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Massive... the amounts of times I have saved a raid from a bit of bad RNG or managed to live that vital few more seconds when the boss is at 2% is nigh in uncountable... Pallies have 3 "oh S$%t!" abilities. LoH, Divine Shield and Ardent Defender... only 2 have the ability to be used by choice and LoH is one of them.

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Q u o t e:
LoH HAS to be a mistake, but are you seriously upset about Sacred Shield?

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PErsonally I always forgot to use it... it's more of a nerf to the Holy Paladins than the tanks TBH... still a harsh nerf to them nonetheless.

i would say this is to offset the partial tanking buff from the new divine guardian.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/26/20677228769-divine-sacrifice.html

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Q u o t e:


PErsonally I always forgot to use it... it's more of a nerf to the Holy Paladins than the tanks TBH... still a harsh nerf to them nonetheless.

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Holy Paladins got a talent buffed to negate it.

Battleground PvP balance is IMPORTANT!

I think you guys are forgetting that.

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Q u o t e:
i would say this is to offset the partial tanking buff from the new divine guardian.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/26/20677228769-divine-sacrifice.html

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I hope so... I really do hope it's part of some overall modification, but the screaming fits since TOC came out from some sections of the player base (some of whome are quite influential) demanding, baying for nerfs to Pally tanking seems to be finally being rewarded.

I think it's nothing more than a quick 'nerf' to shut them all up for a bit, but LOH has saved many, many raids where i've been the last tank standng, half the raid is dead and it's down to me, a healer, some DPS and the boss at 2% rapidly approaching the enrage timer...

In the past I could slam down a LOH, pop whatever cooldowns were up and just hope that the DPS/Heals could get the job done..

Now, I just get gibbed, wait for AD to proc and then get gibbed a second or two later...

If they buffed AD to put you back up to 50 or 100% health, then fine, i'd accept it (the Nerf) but as it stands, it's a one-sided nerf that forces Paladins to the OT role.

Put it this way, why would you use a Paladin as MT when your Warrior/Dk/Bear can do it AND get the benefit from LOH? It will take... ooh.... about 5 secoonds for those running PUG raids to realise this, thus eliminating a tanking spot for Paladins. Guilds will follow suit.

If they do this, Paladins will forever be the add/trash/off tank and will find it very hard to justify a MT role.

THAT is what so many old school Warrior players want, exclusive access to the MT role.

Im just bemused that she immediately jumped and blamed arena for no reason whatsoever. Talk about Ignorance.

Carebears have no sense of balance, if they down a boss then everything is balanced. If it wasnt far arena then not much would be changed about this game since TBC.





Oh and leave your crap gear at the door cuz blizz does not read "ragequit" posts... as if you people ever do quit anyway lol.

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Q u o t e:


I hope so... I really do hope it's part of some overall modification, but the screaming fits since TOC came out from some sections of the player base (some of whome are quite influential) demanding, baying for nerfs to Pally tanking seems to be finally being rewarded.

I think it's nothing more than a quick 'nerf' to shut them all up for a bit, but LOH has saved many, many raids where i've been the last tank standng, half the raid is dead and it's down to me, a healer, some DPS and the boss at 2% rapidly approaching the enrage timer...

In the past I could slam down a LOH, pop whatever cooldowns were up and just hope that the DPS/Heals could get the job done..

Now, I just get gibbed, wait for AD to proc and then get gibbed a second or two later...

If they buffed AD to put you back up to 50 or 100% health, then fine, i'd accept it (the Nerf) but as it stands, it's a one-sided nerf that forces Paladins to the OT role.

Put it this way, why would you use a Paladin as MT when your Warrior/Dk/Bear can do it AND get the benefit from LOH? It will take... ooh.... about 5 secoonds for those running PUG raids to realise this, thus eliminating a tanking spot for Paladins. Guilds will follow suit.

If they do this, Paladins will forever be the add/trash/off tank and will find it very hard to justify a MT role.

THAT is what so many old school Warrior players want, exclusive access to the MT role.

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well that didn't take long.

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Q u o t e:
LoH HAS to be a mistake, but are you seriously upset about Sacred Shield?

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Sacred Shield is a critical spell for soloing some of the harder content.

What they've done is basically neutered the level 80 Paladin spell beyond any shred of usefulness, except for one spec. That, clearly, is excellent game design.