Yawn,

There was a blue post a while back in one of these QQ posts about the opposing team getting instant rank ups which basically said there were additional balancing mechanics in WG other than tenacity that were working as intended. It was a very vague response, but most took it to mean that what they were observing "i.e. if Alliance has a lot more defenses than Horde, the Horde players start at max rank"

I can verify this is the case, Alliance fails miserably at WG on my server. I queue up for WG, enter WG, and while running towards the keep I get 1st Lt within 20 ft of our starting area. With or without tenacity this happens.

It's not an exploit, it's an unpublicized mechanic of the zone. QQ moar, in order for it to come into play you win a lot more WG than you lose anyway.

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Q u o t e:


A single NPC kill is giving sides that are outnumbered instant max rank. Telling people to hide is the worst advice ever. Go outside the fort toward the workshop making the vehicles and start blowing them up before they get to the walls.

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Thing is, in most cases it's some stupid opposing faction player sitting at the other faction's zone-in and spamming AoE on our server. Every single time. We're being "given" max rank on purpose by the opposing faction. I know I'm the same way, I enjoy griefing my own faction more than griefing the opposing faction. Simply because you get QQ whispers.

There's no exploit....there's no cheat....both sides can do it...stop acting like the vegetables in my fridge are smarter then you.

its not an exploit. its working as intended.

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Q u o t e:
The Horde getting siege engines and tenacity within the 1st 2 minutes of the battle has to be stopped. What the horde are doing is after the match starts is they log out then log back in. After doing this they have instant rank to get the siege engines and also tenacity. So if your wondering how the horde is barreling through the gates of wintergrasp in siege engines 3 minutes after the match starts this is why. Please fix Blizz!

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They won't fix it because its not an exploit, Wintergrasp is rigged by Blizzard to try and make sure both factions have close to the same amount of access to VoA.

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Q u o t e:
That aren't really that close to where horde zone-in. And it's not causing the issue the OP is complaining about. I usually am pleasantly surprised when I zone in w/ the buff already. :P

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What?!? The horde landing point is just a stone throw away from the bridge where there are 2 NPCs that you can kill. The reason you have the rank is because you are in the raid and the landing point is close enough to the bridge where someone else in the raid is killing those NPCs and giving you rank from the instant rank from one kill.

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Q u o t e:
it is a feature that blizzard implemented to give the side that loses the most (there is a book inside the orb room to see the stats) faster tenacity.

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Yup. Really, the only failure on Blizzard's part is making this understood in the game. Why not give the team some special buff to indicate they've lost five or six times in a row?

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Q u o t e:
They won't fix it because its not an exploit, Wintergrasp is rigged by Blizzard to try and make sure both factions have close to the same amount of access to VoA.

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Not exactly.

It has mechanics which attempt to prevent one side from ALWAYS controlling it.

If not for these mechanics, I doubt I'd ever get to do VoA. Last week I was not on a single time when we controlled it.

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Q u o t e:
stop acting like the vegetables in my fridge are smarter then you.

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Maybe you have uncommonly smart veggies.

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Q u o t e:


Yup. Really, the only failure on Blizzard's part is making this understood in the game. Why not give the team some special buff to indicate they've lost five or six times in a row?

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it has nothing to do with how often you lose in a row, its overall, the stats are kept on who has won.

Illidan is horde-dominated which means:

1) Horde controls WG and on the next round, Alliance instantly gets 12 seige vehicles and rolls over us with their 10 stacks of tenacity, 3-4 minutes and it's over

2) Alliance controls WG and on the next round, Horde wins in 10-15 minutes by steadily gaining ground on the base since there aren't enough defenders to stop us


I've seen a few cases where one side holds it for 2 or 3 rounds, but usually it's constant back and forth. Broken mechanic yes, and frustrating to know that Horde defending basically ensures a loss against raid-boss level Allied, but if they changed it then Horde would ALWAYS control WG and alliance would stop showing up.

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Q u o t e:
it has nothing to do with how often you lose in a row, its overall, the stats are kept on who has won.

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Ok. I guess I hadn't ever read that. I'm only making a flip interpretation of what Bornakk said:

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Q u o t e:
While we are always on the lookout for exploits and fix them as quickly as possible, there are in-game mechanics that can cause this such as one faction winning multiple times in a row. The goal is to avoid either faction entirely monopolizing the Vault of Archavon from week to week.

- http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19820417651&sid=1&pageNo=7#136

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Regardless, more in-game explanation on what's causing the "exploit confusion" can only help either side of the wall.

I assume that Sunken Ring/Broken Temple starting control is also a balancing factor?

It seemed weird that we'd always have to capture SR and BT, but the opposition (even on offense) had them to start with.

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Q u o t e:
I assume that Sunken Ring/Broken Temple starting control is also a balancing factor?

It seemed weird that we'd always have to capture SR and BT, but the opposition (even on offense) had them to start with.

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Yes the mechanics that give an advantage to the side that loses more often include the fast rank and the starting with more workshops. Both of which are dependant on the stats in the log in the vault and have nothing to do with tenacity. Tenacity is a seperate balancing mechanic based on the battle at hand only and have no effect on starting workshops or fast rank.

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Q u o t e:


Yes the mechanics that give an advantage to the side that loses more often include the fast rank and the starting with more workshops. Both of which are dependant on the stats in the log in the vault and have nothing to do with tenacity. Tenacity is a seperate balancing mechanic based on the battle at hand only and have no effect on starting workshops or fast rank.

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Ah, that makes some sense.

Well, my two cents:

Tenacity: serviceable (not really sure how to make a floating mechanic 'good')

Shop control: good
Fast rank: poor design (a polite understatement)

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Q u o t e:


Ah, that makes some sense.

Well, my two cents:

Tenacity: serviceable (not really sure how to make a floating mechanic 'good')

Shop control: good
Fast rank: poor design (a polite understatement)

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Tenacity definately needs to change. The current version doesnt really help you win. Blowing guys up is fun and all but in the end if you have alot of tenacity you are probably going to lose. The extra damage and health a player gets should be reduced and instead make it so that the vehicles damage and health are increased. It is rediculous that the best way to keep your vehicle alive is to get out and kill the person attacking your vehicle. Also tenacity needs to give resistances to CC. It doesnt matter if you can one shot a player or two when there are 5-10 others chain stunning you until you are dead.

Shop control and fast rank are both important and not poor design IMHO. You need alot of vehicles when you are outnumbered so you need the workshops to make them. You also need to make them quickly to force the defenders to actually defend their walls instead of quickly taking over those workshops. If you look at most battles right after the 16 sieges head to the fort the defenders have usually captured other workshops and you are down to 2 workshops. If those initial sieges dont make it you are now not only outnumbered by people but also by vehicles. The quick zerg makes them defend the fort and gives you time before they send a ton of people to take out your workshops and towers. Most of the QQ comes from choosing to try to take workshops quickly and not having enough people to defend the fort from the zerg.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the ROAR OF MY MO-
Ah crap level 19.

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Q u o t e:
Protip: Defend the keep.

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Stop making sense.

Well, then FIX BLOODSCALP