I'm so underpowered because I use HoJ on mages who haven't blinked yet, and then come to the forums to complain about my stupid mistakes, playing them off as my class being underpowered, or other classes being overpowered.

Sounds right.

---

Q u o t e:


I've played both sides of the fence.

Elemental Shaman and Ret Paladin.

It is frustrating when they reset the fight. BUT since I know the intricicies and weakness of the Paladin, its no big deal.. While he's off resetting the fight, so am I. The fact that he bubbled means I was winning. The net result of the bubble is that we're both on full HP again. Since judgements are ranged attacks, Grounding usually takes care of the stun, if it doesn't I've got a trinket and Astral Shift / Thunderstorm. I dont need to worry abt repentance cause his dot is on me.

See I dont care about his 2 lives, because it lets me regroup, drop appropriate totems (hide them too) and set up. Once his bubble is over I can free cast on him from 36 yards as he strolls over because theres nothing he can do about it. If he tries to interrupt me from range he'll eat the grounding I hid well out of his range. If he doesn't well he's on half HP by the time he makes it to me.

If they LoH, whatever i'll try to recover. Next fight I'll drop Fire Elemental and wipe the floor with him. Long cooldowns are just like that.

---

And if you're a class that can't heal? Like say... A warrior? Are you so dense that you think a few seconds of eating, or a bandage will win the fight?

---

Q u o t e:


And if you're a class that can't heal? Like say... A warrior? Are you so dense that you think a few seconds of eating, or a bandage will win the fight?

---

Are you so dense that the bubble lasts for more than a second. You have the counter, use it.

Someone asked for perspective and I gave it.

Warriors dont win like an Elemental Shaman does. They take the Paladin to "bubble range" much faster since their Art of War healing is made insignificant. Also, Enraged Regeneration will about heal the same amount/more than his Art of War and Sacred Shield. The only healing he can do is inside a bubble, which shouldn't last long.

Perhaps you should Shattering Throw the bubble. He should never even GET to reset the fight unless you're terrible. If he's out-damaging you, well then you need better gear. Warriors hit harder these days, im afraid.

---

Q u o t e:
where is ability to actually stand a chance and win.

---

After ehxaustive research the Azerotian Council of Obviousness has determined where a Ret's ability to stand a chance and win is located... the findings?

It is located between the chair and the keyboard.

If you are having problems, you might want to check at the source.

Seems like the Pally bubble should only be available to Holy Paladins much like Pain Suppression for Disc Priests.

---

Q u o t e:
Well, this is the big hype. Warlocks, mages, elemental shamans, every sort of healer imaginable, etc, etc, etc... have this to gripe about.

"It took me 3 health bars to kill that loladin."

Well, friends, in those 3 health bars that ret paladin was in no way going to beat you. Sooo in essence what you are saying is this.

"I laughed at the ret damage and it took a whole 2 minutes and 37 seconds to burn the ret down. 3 health bars, who has 3 health bars. They need to nerf that right now." Paraphrased from many a warlock and mage.

Here we go, take away that health bar, yes Ghostcrawler, remove it. Why should it take so damned long for that sorry ret in full furious/relentless gear to lose. He should quickly and be out of there, right? I mean, why should these already Overpowered casters have to wait a whole 2 minutes and 37 seconds? That paladin sure HoJ'd me, I had to blink/teleport. Good thing that HoJ is on a 1 minute cd to my 30 seconds. I mean he could have actually hit me. That is preposterous, being hit by a ret paladin.

Is ret a dps spec of a hybrid class? Then where is ability to actually stand a chance and win.

---

shadow priests would like to have a word with you.. that word is "wedon'tgivea****aboutyourwhining"

My favorite part was when the Paladin reset the fight twice and still got /rofl'd to death.

I dont see why people are still complaining about being able to kill a Ret Paladin three times. Seems to me they are telling the devs that Ret Paladins need buffs. If a melee class can't kill a clothie in the time it takes to for the caster to kill him 3 times, then the issue isn't with the melee class. Take away our bubble and our LoH, but we need more damage, interrupts, and gap closers just like every other melee class has.

I play a mage, shadow priest, and a ret/holy paladin, so I've been on all ends of the butt kicking from one class or another.

Well said point, but the fact remains: The game CANNOT be balanced around 1v1. Trying to is both insane and asinine simultaneously. To make it completely fair, we can't have healers, we can't have high armor, no spells, nothing in the way of cc, some defensive cds that are generic-oh hey! I just reinvented vehicle combat!

Was ret too defensive for a 'offensive' spec? Yes, is it offensive enough to be referred to as 'offensive' well, barely, but it still counts.

---

Q u o t e:
I must admit that I found it pretty baffling that so many Rets responded to my mentioning that other players shouldn't have to kill a Ret paladin three times with "See? Rets are underpowered. Buff us so we can kill them before they kill us three times."

This falls into the two wrongs don't make a right bucket: Other players take forever to kill me. If I killed them faster, then they wouldn't take forever to kill me. Problem solved. :)

---

What I said, kind of...no...not at all, but yeah.

BASICALLY, ret as is, is a defense spec, that can throw down some good offense. Now, in arena, that's not great, because cc and control is the name of the game, but in other facets of pvp, I think we're fine.

---

Q u o t e:
Take away our bubble and our LoH, but we need more damage, interrupts, and gap closers just like every other melee class has.

---

There really isn't a good reason for a DPS spec that can heal themselves to also have that bubble. It's unfair to Warriors and other melee, and it's also probably hindering what is or is not given to the Paladin class. There is also no reason a Prot Paladin should have a bubble either, it should be a talent located deep in the Holy tree.


Edit: (IMHO)

---

Q u o t e:
I must admit that I found it pretty baffling that so many Rets responded to my mentioning that other players shouldn't have to kill a Ret paladin three times with "See? Rets are underpowered. Buff us so we can kill them before they kill us three times."

This falls into the two wrongs don't make a right bucket: Other players take forever to kill me. If I killed them faster, then they wouldn't take forever to kill me. Problem solved. :)

---

I think we're asking for a fighting chance to kill them at least. I for one am not saying let me be able to kill them every time. But if we die three times, and still haven't killed them, then something is wrong. Unless the paladin is just plain bad.

---

Q u o t e:
I must admit that I found it pretty baffling that so many Rets responded to my mentioning that other players shouldn't have to kill a Ret paladin three times with "See? Rets are underpowered. Buff us so we can kill them before they kill us three times."

This falls into the two wrongs don't make a right bucket: Other players take forever to kill me. If I killed them faster, then they wouldn't take forever to kill me. Problem solved. :)

---

You highly overestimate this community.

I remember back in 3.0, a Ret paladin was saying that the damage they were doing was balanced because it makes up for their lack of an interrupt. You see, instead of interrupting healers to get their kills, they kill them outright, and that is balance.

I shall now refer to the blue poast and derail the thread...

*ahem*

Whats the deal with Airline Food?

loljk!

I really do like the new changes, I have said it time and time again that with the previous Sacred Shield+Flash change, prot and ret especially would be unkillable machines. Basically, as ret, with the change, we would have essentially 2 hots on us. 1 from the mere flash, and another from Sheath. Okay, so basically, 2 rolling hots (since 50% chance to crit puts us at what, 75ish MINIMUM) that's a lot of healing, and not everyone has dispels, and they don't always work.

So not to hurt holy, make it talented. It was either: Make the shield a lame version of PW:S, nerf the crit percentage, or remove the hot baseline and talent or glyph it. Basically, SS was the ability for every paladin, and it did more for the non healing specs than it did for the healing spec, and dats wrong :O

edited for emphasis.

---

Q u o t e:
I must admit that I found it pretty baffling that so many Rets responded to my mentioning that other players shouldn't have to kill a Ret paladin three times with "See? Rets are underpowered. Buff us so we can kill them before they kill us three times."

This falls into the two wrongs don't make a right bucket: Other players take forever to kill me. If I killed them faster, then they wouldn't take forever to kill me. Problem solved. :)

---

This is pretty much how all non rets see things. Could you use some of this logic over on the tank forums to explain some things, especially why prot warriors are inferior to prot pallies in every way.

So nearly a year later and Blizz is just now getting around to fixing the paladin's ability to go into god-mode? Interesting...

---

Q u o t e:
You highly overestimate this community.

I remember back in 3.0, a Ret paladin was saying that the damage they were doing was balanced because it makes up for their lack of an interrupt. You see, instead of interrupting healers to get their kills, they kill them outright, and that is balance.

---

lmao!!!!

---

Q u o t e:


There really isn't a good reason for a DPS spec that can heal themselves to also have that bubble. It's unfair to Warriors and other melee, and it's also probably hindering what is or is not given to the Paladin class. There is also no reason a Prot Paladin should have a bubble either, it should be a talent located deep in the Holy tree.


Edit: (IMHO)

---

There really isn't a good reason for a DPS spec that can heal themselves to also have an ability to reduce all incoming damage by 90% and be immune to snares.

---

Q u o t e:
You highly overestimate this community.

I remember back in 3.0, a Ret paladin was saying that the damage they were doing was balanced because it makes up for their lack of an interrupt. You see, instead of interrupting healers to get their kills, they kill them outright, and that is balance.

---

I remember in s5 Dk's saying they weren't OP.