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Q u o t e:
<cut>However, when I am in the group with my Mage and we agree to Disenchant an item, those mats belong to whoever gets the rolls, not to me, or to any random person who wants them. All this is really doing is saves the Enchanter from having to DE everything at the end of a run, make people roll to pass the things out, etc.<cut>

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This is the first argument that makes sense to me. I can accept that the people I'm grouping with have a *right* to the shards. I hadn't looked at it that way. Stupid, I know, but I'm only human. :)

EDIT: Upon further reading and consideration, I am back to my original opinion. If everyone really had a right to a shard, then everyone would be able to get shards even without an enchanter present. This is not the case, so shards are not a right.

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Q u o t e:

To maintain the importance of the profession itself, the disenchanting UI option will only be available for groups that have a character with the necessary level of Enchanting to disenchant the items that are obtained.

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I'm disappointed with the change, but I'll live with it. It's only a minor annoyance that my profession is taken out of my hands. But the phrasing (quoted above) used to justify this change is more than silly. How is this "maintaining the importance of the profession itself?" If anything, it will alter the importance of the profession itself a good deal.

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Q u o t e:
Group Disenchanting
Players in a group with an enchanter will now have the option to automatically disenchant any items that are not claimed by a player from within the loot window. Players will have this option available to them in both premade groups and in randomly matched groups. This option is available in any loot system, even if players don’t use the new dungeon tool.

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Does this mean that master looters will be able to send items as disenchanted mats to raid members by the 3.3 release?

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Q u o t e:
I just want to throw in my two cents here. I feel pretty strongly about having leveled a profession that is going to be forced to share with people regardless of whether I want to or not.

One of two things would make me pretty happy:

1. Miners, Herbalists, Skinners, and Engineers open roll windows when they gather their resources.

2. Give me an option to disable the feature if I would rather not use it in a group (perhaps add a check box to the Enchanting window for "Group Disenchant").

Thanks.

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1. All but engineering are gathering professions and their products are the top level of their profession. A shard is not..

2. Only for greens. High end shards are being made more common. Same thing happened to Jewels but in a different way.

3. See my Enchanting nodes and "shatter" ha.

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Q u o t e:


You're very rude. I politely listed two suggestions that would allow enchanters to have a choice. Why does that make you so angry? I'm the kind of person who usually does things for people for free because I enjoy helping and being nice. Asking for an option to allow me to retain my choice isn't selfish or game-destroying. You really need to take a step back and stop attacking people. It adds nothing to the discussion.

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Sorry, the selfishness in this whole thread is really irritating me. While the first paragraph I wrote was directed at you, the second was not, but reading it again I can see that is not clear in the slightest. You are right, it was not needed. I apologize for my aggressive tone and particularly for singling you out.

I too am someone who happily provides many of my services for free because cooperation is what WoW is about. Thus this is why I have no issue with this change, yes it removes our 'choice' but in my opinion the choice to withhold this particular service in the first place, especially one as trivial as DEing items that everyone in a group has earned, is in almost every circumstance detrimental to the game.

The only situation I can see where it is not is when you have an utter jerk in your group and you hate to see them getting stuff. But there are solutions for that, there is the vote kick option, there are ignore lists so you never have to group with them again.

Thus, if this is the only exception, why do we want or need this 'choice' at all? I think it's easily worth sacrificing for the sake of a great new LFG system and ease of distributing DE mats in groups. Sure there is personal profit, but then we become the very jerks that we are so loathe to DE for in the first place.

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Q u o t e:


Not saying your wrong, but if this was the case, they could have done something about this without waiting for cross-server grouping to "slip in" this kind of change. /shrug

Also, non-enchanters are ALREADY d/eing items and putting the mats on the AH. Even Blizzard thinks this (see OP for comment on this).

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Two birds with one stone I would guess.

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Q u o t e:

Oh don't worry. I didn't actually expect you to explain why that difference invalidates the comparison.

Mostly because there is no reason.

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You just keep on trolling there tiger, you might get a bite one of these days.

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Q u o t e:


I believe the Need before Greed loot option will be the default in these dungeon runs as well so that will limit the number of items that can be needed on to some degree.

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...And it will shortly thereafter be switched to master loot.

People want to govern what happens to loot in instances themselves. People believe they can make judgment calls that an automated loot system can't, this is the same reason enchanters don't want you to force the use of part of their profession (which has the possibility of being used against their will). Simply put, people want control.

The old enchanting system had 0 problems. The change you're adding adds convenience, yes, but brings problems to some enchanters. Simply allowing it to be toggled off by the enchanter gives us the best of both worlds.

As an enchanter I don't like:
+ keeping track of other peoples loot
+ keeping my mats separate from what needs to be rolled on
+ keeping track of rolls at the end of a run
+ handing out shards while people are getting antsy

I know I'm not the only enchanter that feels this way, I'm excited about this new feature.

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Q u o t e:
I too am someone who happily provides many of my services for free because cooperation is what WoW is about. Thus this is why I have no issue with this change, yes it removes our 'choice' but in my opinion the choice to withhold this particular service in the first place, especially one as trivial as DEing items that everyone in a group has earned, is in almost every circumstance detrimental to the game.

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That's complete rubbish.

No other profession so frequently offers their services to their PuGs free of charge, and those professions are doing just fine.

Withholding professional services until a mutually agreeable arrangement is reached is the norm. Let's not pretend that enchanters aren't becoming the exception.

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Q u o t e:


I believe the Need before Greed loot option will be the default in these dungeon runs as well so that will limit the number of items that can be needed on to some degree.

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Actually I see the Enchanters point with greens. It is their leveling mats and you really should either remove them from the auto DE table or vastly lower the mat requirements to level up.

Rare and Epics make sense (assuming your are going after mat costs as well), but dusts and essences were never really that bad and this is actually unfair to enchanters when you factor in the amount of mats needed to skill up.

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Q u o t e:
I actually think blizz should take things a step further.

Fish feasts requires a *party/raid* member to have x cooking skill
Repairbots require a *party/raid* member to have x engineering skill

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Huh? This is already true. You need a certain level of cooking to drop fish feasts. You need a certain level of engineering to drop repair bots.....

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Q u o t e:
I am displeased with this change to enchanting as I've described in an earlier forum thread labed: They took yer jerbs (enchanting rant.)

In summary: I argued against this as this will negatively effect the enchanting market and the supply may become so abundant that it may be better to sell the item rather than to disenchant it. We may see more dungeon group farming for the drops to disenchant. This will be taking money away from enchanters and this completely unfair in my point of view. I make my gold from disenchanting items from the auction house and selling the materials back. I also get tips by disenchanting people's good in the cities who ask in trade. I've disenchanted over 10,000 items and have made over 150,000 gold from selling my products in the auction house. You are taking the money from my gold wallet, Blizzard!

You (Blizzard) may be streamlining the process. But I will insist on becoming the master looter or need rolling on items that I can disenchant. It has been argued hundreds of times that no one bothers to roll to receive the item gained on skinning, herbalism, and mining. I am a displeased customer.

I am not blaming you, Bornakk as the messenger mind you. But there are a number of people other than myself who are displeased as well.

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There is no prove that this will have a impact on the market, the shards will be going to different severs, different markets.

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Q u o t e:


Huh? This is already true. You need a certain level of cooking to drop fish feasts. You need a certain level of engineering to drop repair bots.....

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im talking from a point that if my alts make these things i send to my pally who i play now he can use as long as a party/raid member has the profession.

i usually get stiffed giving them to another member of a pug to drop

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Q u o t e:


There is no prove that this will have a impact on the market, the shards will be going to different severs, different markets.

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Well it will since regardless of where they go and come from they will avg out to distribute to servers based on Population.

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Q u o t e:


im talking from a point that if my alts make these things i send to my pally who i play now he can use as long as a party/raid member has the profession.

i usually get stiffed giving them to another member of a pug to drop

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That would be handy.

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Q u o t e:
Huh? This is already true. You need a certain level of cooking to drop fish feasts. You need a certain level of engineering to drop repair bots.....

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I think what he means is that you should be allowed to drop Feasts/Bots even if you personally don't have Cooking/Eng but someone else in the raid does. Which obviously would be perfectly acceptable to most people I think. And is a reasonable parallel of this new DE feature, unlike most of the examples involving gathering skills.

I never quite got this; why did the philosophy that enchanters should share the spoils of their profession with the group come from?

I don't see non-miners rolling to get the material from the pure saronite nodes in Ulduar, I don't see people rolling off the Arctic Fur from the yeti in AC, people don't raid roll the Titansteel from Flame Lev, etc.