Make Divine Protec-shieldwall-tion not. No other tank has any restriction on using their cooldowns (other than the actual cooldown part)... ESPECIALLY not where ANOTHER PLAYER can make them unable to shield wall. The way it is currently is at least workable, since nobody is going to HoP a tank other than something like debuff-clearing for beasts, but there is no reason whatsoever a holy or ret paladin using a normal spell in the course of a normal fight should take away a pallytank's ONLY cooldown which can be activated on demand.


I can see how just straight taking it off forbearance might be a balance problem for PVP as other specs... if that is the problem, make it talented deep in the tree:

Guarded by the light
Reduces spell damage taken by 3/6% and gives a 50/100% chance to refresh the duration of your divine plea when you hit an enemy. In addition, your Divine Plea spell is 100% less likely to be dispelled and Divine Protection no longer is affected by or causes Forbearance.


I don't care what you have to do to make prothealing in arenas not OP with the change (TbtL causes crit heals to apply a stacking -10% resil debuff?), but taking away pallytanks' ability to reliably use their ONLY cooldown when THEY choose is not a good solution.

If you were to add it to Guarded by the Light, it'd probably be a 50/100% chance to not have Divine Protection cause Forbearance. It ultimately means the same, but it'd be necessary for tooltip consistency. There'd also need to be a bit in there about letting DP be usable with Forbearance already active, but that's a given.

Honestly, I kinda like that idea. The alternative would be trying to dodgey up some sort of other limitation, the way that Shield Wall requires both a shield to be equipped and Defensive Stance. Limiting it to a Shield would stop Ret from actively using it, but Holy would still be allowed so you'd probably need to implement some kind of spell haste penalty to discourage that. But simply having a deep Prot talent would solve all those sorts of issues without fundamentally changing the gameplay for the other trees.

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Post 4


Something's missing here......

Just some trolls. Nothing of value was lost.

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Q u o t e:
paladin using a normal spell in the course of a normal fight should take away a pallytank's ONLY cooldown which can be activated on demand.

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Exaggerate much?

It doesn't take away your glyphed salv.
It doesn't take away your DG.
It doesn't take away your Divine Plea+t10.

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Q u o t e:


Exaggerate much?

It doesn't take away your glyphed salv.
It doesn't take away your DG.
It doesn't take away your Divine Plea+t10.

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1. Pally threat got nerfed. No way I'm gonna use salv on content that matters... I'm ahead on TPS, but not so that I can just drop 20% on a whim.
2. DG isn't a tank cooldown. It INCREASES the damage you take, by redirecting to you.
3. 12% avoidance, when tank avoidance is already too high and damage is being made unavoidable? Straw man argument is straw man.

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Q u o t e:
1. Pally threat got nerfed. No way I'm gonna use salv on content that matters... I'm ahead on TPS, but not so that I can just drop 20% on a whim.

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It's still quite usable if you're smart about it.

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Q u o t e:

2. DG isn't a tank cooldown. It INCREASES the damage you take, by redirecting to you.

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Not the 3.3 version, combined with a macro.

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Q u o t e:

3. 12% avoidance, when tank avoidance is already too high and damage is being made unavoidable? Straw man argument is straw man.

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It's still a CD.

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Q u o t e:
It's still quite usable if you're smart about it.

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This LoH change will destroy paladin tanking and no pally will be able to tank ever again, ever ever ever!

See, I can make statements with no reasoning or facts to back it up too.

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Q u o t e:
Not the 3.3 version, combined with a macro.

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It's been changed what, 3 times already this patch? 4? I have very little confidence it will go live as is, and I'm NOT going to base my reasoning on that happening.

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Q u o t e:
It's still a CD.

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Yup! It's a cooldown based on having ALREADY cleared the vast majority of the instance and winning 4 pieces of loot, and which will probably be about as useful as spell reflect.

In the end though, all this is beside the point... which is that you are being a trolling jackass, and another player in raid shouldn't be able to keep me from shield walling.

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Q u o t e:
This LoH change will destroy paladin tanking and no pally will be able to tank ever again, ever ever ever!

See, I can make statements with no reasoning or facts to back it up too.

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That doesn't change the fact that I'm right. There are many situations where aggro isn't a critical issue right now.

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Q u o t e:

It's been changed what, 3 times already this patch? 4? I have very little confidence it will go live as is, and I'm NOT going to base my reasoning on that happening.

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Then you should also not base your reasoning on the LoH change going live.

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Q u o t e:

Yup! It's a cooldown based on having ALREADY cleared the vast majority of the instance and winning 4 pieces of loot, and which will probably be about as useful as spell reflect.

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Close. You can get t10p4 by running heroics.

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Q u o t e:

In the end though, all this is beside the point... which is that you are being a trolling jackass, and another player in raid shouldn't be able to keep me from shield walling.

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This is no different from a hunter keeping Pack up. Or an idiot of any class running in front of Icehowl. Raid members can grief other raid members. Get used to it.

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Q u o t e:
Close. You can get t10p4 by running heroics.

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AAAAAnd that's where I decided you are just COMPLETELY full of #%%* and not worth arguing with.

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Q u o t e:

AAAAAnd that's where I decided you are just COMPLETELY full of #%%* and not worth arguing with.

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What did he say thats wrong? Badge of Frost will be awarded from daily heroics. Sad, but true.

Plus 10 Emblems of Frost from the Raid weekly or whatever.

Go kill XT, I give you badges!

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Q u o t e:
What did he say thats wrong? Badge of Frost will be awarded from daily heroics. Sad, but true.

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And, based on current prices and rewards from daily heroics, it would only take 80 days before you'd get enough badges for 4pc! I'm sure nobody in any guild will want their pally to tank the instance LESS than 3 months after it comes out!!!

Saying anybody can get their 4pc from doing heroics is complete horse@@!* as far as arguments go, and even if it WASN'T, it in no way justifies paladins being the only ones who can't rely on being able to use their tanking cooldowns. Until I see him in favor of making forbearance lock him out of barkskin, I'll go ahead and keep calling him a troll.

You know, as much as I support the idea, I'm afraid I no longer support you in your endeavour. I'm not sure why it is people on this forum have to argue among themselves the way they have been, but that's no reason to provoke further, unproductive argument.

Debate is good. But this just feels like I should have brought some urinal cakes with me.

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Q u o t e:
And, based on current prices and rewards from daily heroics, it would only take 80 days before you'd get enough badges for 4pc! I'm sure nobody in any guild will want their pally to tank the instance LESS than 3 months after it comes out!!!

Saying anybody can get their 4pc from doing heroics is complete horse@@!* as far as arguments go, and even if it WASN'T, it in no way justifies paladins being the only ones who can't rely on being able to use their tanking cooldowns. Until I see him in favor of making forbearance lock him out of barkskin, I'll go ahead and keep calling him a troll.

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Umm before you got AD, pallies were crying that they had no cooldowns, now suddenly, LOH is a tanking cooldown. Amazazing!

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Q u o t e:
Umm before you got AD, pallies were crying that they had no cooldowns, now suddenly, LOH is a tanking cooldown. Amazazing!

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Dear lord, are you really that stupid? He wasn't referring to LoH as a cd; he was referring to LoH being cast on us by another paladin locking us out of DIVINE PROTECTION due to Forbearance.

DIVINE PROTECTION is our tanking mitigation cooldown.

DIVINE PROTECTION is our tanking mitigation cooldown.

DIVINE PROTECTION is our tanking mitigation cooldown.

DIVINE PROTECTION is our tanking mitigation cooldown.

LoH is a cooldown, but it is not a tanking cooldown, nor is it a mitigation cooldown. It is a heal with a very long cooldown timer usable by and on every class and spec in the game.

I agree with the OP for more reasons than just LoH. This also shows up against gormok where any other tanking class can get a HoP to clear the stacks where paladins just have to eat it.

Adding to a prot talent would be the best way to help prot paladins get around forbearance problems while, hopefully, not messing with any pvp balance efforts.