i think the warlock community wants a fix to the desum issue instead of a lowered CD

I know this probably won't happen but... replace Infernal with Rain of Chaos. There, problem with whether to use infernal or not solved.

Sides, who doesn't want to be like the warlock in the vanilla wow opening cinematic? First char i rolled was a warlock in vanilla, whom i shelved till LK after i learned that i couldn't have more than one infernal at a time.

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Q u o t e:


If you read the patch notes, you'll see that we lowered the cooldown on almost every long cooldown ability. The ones we did not lower (like the Doomguard) we didn't lower for specific reasons. This was not an attempt to buff Inferno and make it something all warlocks use. It was a pass at all of the long cooldowns still in the game.

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So because hes trivial, yet still retardedly effective in our "Situational" world of per say, pvp. He shouldnt have a major use if we needed him? Im not sure this is quite fair in any sense. No other class has such a cruch in where they have to determine the odds by what 10-5second pet they can muster up simply so they can use the synergy with that pet, b4 it either dies, or becomes useless. Hunters at least have their core abilities tied in their actual class (ie silence shot) Warlocks need to have their FH out just to utilize it. And hes fear / kill and ccable.

Essentially, these two demons should either be removed, or revamped into deep demo as guardians. Doom Guard on a 5 min cd, Inferno on a 2min cd. This way you dont have to worry about aff supposedly using the Doomguard for dps boosts in PvE. And this would help Warlocks deal with being near bottom of the pure dps charts.

Would this bring too many problems to the table GC? Id like some constructive thought to run through this thread =)

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Q u o t e:


If you read the patch notes, you'll see that we lowered the cooldown on almost every long cooldown ability. The ones we did not lower (like the Doomguard) we didn't lower for specific reasons. This was not an attempt to buff Inferno and make it something all warlocks use. It was a pass at all of the long cooldowns still in the game.

You might also consider that if you guys responded with fewer "Finally replied to a warlock issue" and "Do they even understand warlocks?" garbage posts that we might respond more often.

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Thanks for the update on that GC. I don't intend to seem whiny since you have already given warlocks a few nice buffs, but the cooldown reduction does not change the fact that there is no reason to use the infernal. I understand that it wasn't your goal to make it worth using, but right now the key issue is that, with pets becoming more integral to each tree (especially come 3.3), the infernal has no use simply because it replaces our current demon. I think that making it into a guardian would finally make this spell worth using in many situations. Since testing is still going on, why not just let it in an upcoming build to see what actually happens? Especially if you think its an idea that could work.

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Q u o t e:


If you read the patch notes, you'll see that we lowered the cooldown on almost every long cooldown ability. The ones we did not lower (like the Doomguard) we didn't lower for specific reasons. This was not an attempt to buff Inferno and make it something all warlocks use. It was a pass at all of the long cooldowns still in the game.

You might also consider that if you guys responded with fewer "Finally replied to a warlock issue" and "Do they even understand warlocks?" garbage posts that we might respond more often.

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Garbage? Why wasn't the doomguard cd lowered, we are low on the dps meters as it is. I see the problem is you want the felpup to be the affliction pet, but lowering the doomguard cd would bring it into line with all the other cooldowns yes?

The dk's keep there pet's when the summon the army, why hasnt this been fixed for the warlock class yet? Is it in the design and too hard to change at this point in time?

GC,

can we PLEASE get an ability to spread around our DoT's? i don't care if you call it Pestilence and just rip it directly from the DK class. it should have been a warlock ability LONG before DK's were a thought in your heads.

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Q u o t e:
The problem with lowering the Doomguard cooldown to ~10 min is there is a reasonable chance Affliction would just use the Doomguard all the time.

We want the temporary warlock demons to useful but not actually replace the core demons. An interesting idea for Cataclysm is for them not to replace the current demon. I have no idea if we'll do this or not, but we won't be able to do it for 3.3.

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Huge Mistake: The idea of implementing the Infernal as a pet that doesn't replace the current demon is just an idea. Every sane Warlock wants him to not replace the current Demon. Don't make it just an idea, do it. Do it for the poor Infernal-starved Warlocks in WotLK!

I'm interested in this idea that we get to summon our Infernal and Doomguard as a Guardian instead of having them replace our pet. I'd even be satisfied if the Infernal/Doomguard replaced our pet, but it re-summoned the original pet once the big guy despawned, like how the Eye of Kilrogg works now.

Really, the Infernal and Doomguard would be awesome if they were Guardians but are Guardians controllable? If the Infernal and Doomguard weren't controllable (IE: they became like Shaman Elementals, Mage Mirrors or Army Ghouls) we'd lose a LOT of their strength and interest. I just don't know if Blizz's interface can handle two controllable pets at once. I'm thinking that no, it probably can't because it wouldn't have a way to distinguish your pet-commands between Pet A and Pet B in a situation where you want your Imp DPSing an add, but your Infernal on the boss.


Still, a nice idea for the future if it can be resolved!

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Q u o t e:
I'm interested in this idea that we get to summon our Infernal and Doomguard as a Guardian instead of having them replace our pet. I'd even be satisfied if the Infernal/Doomguard replaced our pet, but it re-summoned the original pet once the big guy despawned, like how the Eye of Kilrogg works now.

Really, the Infernal and Doomguard would be awesome if they were Guardians but are Guardians controllable? If the Infernal and Doomguard weren't controllable (IE: they became like Shaman Elementals, Mage Mirrors or Army Ghouls) we'd lose a LOT of their strength and interest. I just don't know if Blizz's interface can handle two controllable pets at once. I'm thinking that no, it probably can't because it wouldn't have a way to distinguish your pet-commands between Pet A and Pet B in a situation where you want your Imp DPSing an add, but your Infernal on the boss.


Still, a nice idea for the future if it can be resolved!

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I think the Doomguard could be the Demonology Warlock's Infernal cooldown, or it could be one of their options.

Demonology needs more Demon love. Blizzard needs to totally re-do their Pet Interface/UI, pet specs have always failed due to Blizzard's lack of care for proper working pets and a good set of Pet Interface and UI.

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Q u o t e:
You might also consider that if you guys responded with fewer "Finally replied to a warlock issue" and "Do they even understand warlocks?" garbage posts that we might respond more often.

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Not defending those that said it in this topic, but doesn't every other class do the same thing? "Thank god, he said something about Spriests, too bad it was useless" "do you even know how a ret pally works??" etc. A lot of the player base is like this regardless of class. It's better to just ignore them, really.

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Q u o t e:
You might also consider that if you guys responded with fewer "Finally replied to a warlock issue" and "Do they even understand warlocks?" garbage posts that we might respond more often.

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We arent all like that GC. Some of us are appreciative and able to understand nuance.

Dont let the bad apples ruin it for us that look forward to your company.

Could not post earlier but good to see what I thought is true. Blizzard, stated via GC, is moving away from long cooldown moves. I think it's a good plan because:

1. A long cooldown means that the move then is very powerful. So powerful that it becomes hard to balance.
1a. However if the move is not powerful enough it becomes outright useless.

2. As a player then we get to play the game of when do we use our uber move. A great example of a move that was powerful and yet was used often was Shield Wall. And back in the day when Wars were the only tanks it had it's place in boss fights. A War could pop it, for example, on Huhu's last 20% when it was burn down time.
2a. But what if you are like, "Ahhhh, this might get tough now but I know it might get tough later...do I really want to blow this really long cooldown now?" As such I never used my Shield Wall button my War much. Granted I did not raid tank much in 1.x but still it was just such a long cooldown that I had to remind myself to use it at all.

3. And then what if you burn that cooldown and fail. Well now your really kinda screwed. Your not going to have it during your next attempt and what do you do then? Goes back then to what I was talking about in 2a where when you have these long cooldowns you start second guessing yourself about using them at all.

So! Overall I think it's great that all these long cooldowns are being removed. That being said the abilities that they are then tied too need to be revamped as well. The very moment they changed the Shield Wall cooldown I moved it to a much more prominent location on my hotbars. I use it all the time. I can't say that I would even put Inferno back on my bars on my Lock thou at this point.

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Q u o t e:
The problem with lowering the Doomguard cooldown to ~10 min is there is a reasonable chance Affliction would just use the Doomguard all the time.

We want the temporary warlock demons to useful but not actually replace the core demons. An interesting idea for Cataclysm is for them not to replace the current demon. I have no idea if we'll do this or not, but we won't be able to do it for 3.3.

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Well since Affliction was falling behind so far and its questionalable if it will be as good as destro is now after the patch and Warlocks (all specs) falling behind due to scaling, how is this really a bad thing to use a Doomguard all the time?

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Having a second pet bar pop out or having one pet bar give different commands to different pets is something we currently can't do.

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Even if you currently could, we'd be dealing with some pretty ridiculous micro-management requirements under the current system to be able to control the spells of 3 different entities at once.

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The way the current technology works is you can have one pet or many guardians. Pets have a pet bar and guardians do not. We get around the first limitation on group pets like the shaman wolves by having them both use the same pet bar.

It wouldn't be too hard to make a guardian Doomguard or Infernal pop out without replacing the Imp or Felhound etc. but then you'd lose the ability to give it specific commands. Having a second pet bar pop out or having one pet bar give different commands to different pets is something we currently can't do.

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Please work on making two pet bars work, please.

Allowing the Demonologist the ability to have a temporary summon of a second Demon (not guardian) would be the single best thing the spec can ever have. The spec needs the Felguard, you can't balance spec around focusing their power on empowering 5 or so pets, but you can do it if their is a main one and much lesser ones.

Pets and the way they work need a lot of work in general, their lack of ability to go off certain cliffs still is a very damage problem in Arena. There's still is no "move to here" spec which I think is very important for a true pet spec to even exist.

[Edit]: Just to add, I'm really appreciating that you are posting about Warlocks.

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Q u o t e:

The way the current technology works is you can have one pet or many guardians. Pets have a pet bar and guardians do not. We get around the first limitation on group pets like the shaman wolves by having them both use the same pet bar.

It wouldn't be too hard to make a guardian Doomguard or Infernal pop out without replacing the Imp or Felhound etc. but then you'd lose the ability to give it specific commands. Having a second pet bar pop out or having one pet bar give different commands to different pets is something we currently can't do.

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I can't speak for all warlocks, but I would rather have them be guardians and usable as oppsed to never using them because they are dps loss.

As guardians, they would at least have some of the wow factor added back to them. The synergy between the core pets and the warlock is too great for them to be replaced by the infernal and doomguard.

On the subject of getting the long cooldown temporary pets more use...

As a temporary fix until you come up with a way to have 2 pet bars (if that is actually a design goal), why not implement a slight change to the temporary pets - simply when the temporary pet despawns/dies, whatever pet was originally out when you summoned the temporary pet instantly returns to your side.