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Q u o t e:


Righteous Vengeance will not break Repentance.

Remember when you said this in beta?

3.0.8 Repentance broken by RV. Will be fixed in a future patch.

When's that patch coming?

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Or when they said they had plans to spice up crusader strike. Lol we al know how that one turned out, warriors got unrelenting assault MS.

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Q u o t e:


Or when they said they had plans to spice up crusader strike. Lol we al know how that one turned out, warriors got unrelenting assault MS.

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Hey, Crusader Strike got spiced up..... to deal damage like a wet noodle and be spammed more often, making it more easy to actually faceroll with it...

Also, I'd like to hear how this is a self fulfilling prophecy GC. Cus I'm not seeing it at all.

I think we're all missing the most important issue with Paladins in Cata.



Racial spells.

They've already proven with Blood Elves that some spells with the same effect can be renamed to be more thematic for a specific race.

Hopefully Bliz stays on the ball and rolled on Tauren Paladins with Bovine Shield.

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Q u o t e:
Self-fulfilling prophecy is self-fulfilling.

Hopefully "Ret is the only spec balanced around one vs. one" can join the annals of "Prot warriors will be nerfed until representation is equal" and "GC says you should choose avoidance over stam."

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It's self fulfilling because the only place ret could reasonably "tank" is against certain classes in 1v1.

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Q u o t e:
Self-fulfilling prophecy is self-fulfilling.

Hopefully "Ret is the only spec balanced around one vs. one" can join the annals of "Prot warriors will be nerfed until representation is equal" and "GC says you should choose avoidance over stam."

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Don't count on it. With the way you've been tossing out baseless nerfs to an already weak spec, you should expect to be taken to task for this.

We still continually bring up Kalgan's mispoken "If you want to succeed in arena, spec holy", "ret's a leveling spec", the Vanilla ZG doll, the myriad of poor Bliizcon jokes at Ret paladins' expense, and of course, your infamous "To the ground", "JoJ is a Gap closer", and now "Ret is too tanky'.

We're not going to let you off easy this time.

You gave us a taste of viability in 3.0, and you have since, and continue still, have it taken away from us, we aren't going to let it go so easily.

psst CG, still waiting for a responce on your opinion of ret vs healer

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Q u o t e:
Self-fulfilling prophecy is self-fulfilling.

Hopefully "Ret is the only spec balanced around one vs. one" can join the annals of "Prot warriors will be nerfed until representation is equal" and "GC says you should choose avoidance over stam."

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lol

You're taking the complete wrong angle. This thread is just spilling tears and crazyness all over the place.

Aight this is what you do to fix ret in BGs so that arena doesn't get screwed with. Make Lay on Hands give you forbearance. Leave Sacred Shield as is. Buff Crusader Strike to 115% and make it cause all judgements on the target to be twice as effective, except judgement of justice which would then just cause movement speed to be reduced to 70% of regular movement speed if affected by Crusader Strike.

I was always sad that CC's synergy with judgement was removed. But there you go. A small gap closer, a little synergy, fixes having rets and prots bubble and LoH in the same fight, doesn't effect holy, small buff to main strike makes rets happier since they have no spammable interrupt and their dps is a tad low especially in arenas, BAM, problem solved.

Also make the DoT crit without the set bonus.

Also for the Sheath of Light effect nerf it by 50%.

If you can't tell I love ret but it needs some work in both directions to be balanced. I know if you give it too much it will destroy but if you take too much away it's going to suck.

It's not terrible though WotLK has brought it a long way. And it was terribly OP at the beginning of 3.0.

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Q u o t e:


I said in the other big paladin thread that we are specifically *not* singling out paladins for duel balancing but that I was sure it would get quoted into perpetuity that we said we single out paladins for duel balancing, much like my other examples of things we are *not* doing that then get quoted as things we are doing.

Some of the other things that have been quoted in this thread are things we did say that we just haven't gotten around to yet. There's a big difference.

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So you ARE a communist and resilience WILL fix it? :O

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Q u o t e:


I said in the other big paladin thread that we are specifically *not* singling out paladins for duel balancing but that I was sure it would get quoted into perpetuity that we said we single out paladins for duel balancing, much like my other examples of things we are *not* doing that then get quoted as things we are doing.

Some of the other things that have been quoted in this thread are things we did say that we just haven't gotten around to yet. There's a big difference.

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kk GC, i could spend 3 days dueling a healer as ret because they spammed /lol at me and barley had to heal....im curious if this is being looked at

with this being the last content patch can we expect those changes to be coming in the xpac, or the next xpac after cataclysm?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17615565589&sid=1

Ret isn't balanced around 1v1, it's balanced around bad players.

Sadly, there still haven't been any improvements to raise the skill cap for ret. The only real difference between a good and bad ret paladin currently is that the "good" ret paladin will spam cleanse a lot and won't forget to hit Divine Shield.

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Q u o t e:


I said in the other big paladin thread that we are specifically *not* singling out paladins for duel balancing but that I was sure it would get quoted into perpetuity that we said we single out paladins for duel balancing, much like my other examples of things we are *not* doing that then get quoted as things we are doing.

Some of the other things that have been quoted in this thread are things we did say that we just haven't gotten around to yet. There's a big difference.

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I can't blame you for not changing RV, that's totally understandable. But you need to talk to us about this SS thing, because it's one of the very few things you've done that I cannot wrap my head around.

Are you saying that you ARE nerfing ret because of duels, just not exclusively ret? Or are you saying it's not duels or whatever that are the issue? Do you have anything at all to reassure those of us who kind of pvp seriously and see this change as a massive arena nerf for no real reason? Do you think there is a valid arena reason? I know these are hardball questions, but you can surely see why we're concerned at least, right?

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Q u o t e:


I said in the other big paladin thread that we are specifically *not* singling out paladins for duel balancing but that I was sure it would get quoted into perpetuity that we said we single out paladins for duel balancing, much like my other examples of things we are *not* doing that then get quoted as things we are doing.

Some of the other things that have been quoted in this thread are things we did say that we just haven't gotten around to yet. There's a big difference.

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Do you really expect us to not answer in this manner when ret is hurting more than you're willing to admit?

I'm not saying you have not played paladins, but have you ever tried putting pressure on a healer as ret? You can't. I've tried and it's an exercise in futility as you see the paltry damage from either the heavily nerfed SoC or see the attempted 5 stack of SoV fall off before you can bring its full damage to bear.

And now, and as per the experience of other rets in arena, what little survivability that ret's have has been hurt all the more and for what? BG heroes that piss and moan because a ret paladin actually killed them?

I thought you designers had higher standards than that.

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Q u o t e:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17615565589&sid=1

Ret isn't balanced around 1v1, it's balanced around bad players.

Sadly, there still haven't been any improvements to raise the skill cap for ret. The only real difference between a good and bad ret paladin currently is that the "good" ret paladin will spam cleanse a lot and won't forget to hit Divine Shield.

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The skill cap for ret is currently on how you use defensive abilities. Putting BoP on an Avenging Wrath level might be a little too much. Rets should be casting them on others most of the time anyways.

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Q u o t e:


I'm sorry to say it, but it DOES seem like you are pushing Ret to be balanced around duels and Battlegrounds. According to top Ret players, Ret just isn't very competitive way up on the Arena scale and there are statistics around that back that opinion up. I don't mind nerfing LoH, but nerfs to other things will only make the spec non-existent in top PvP.

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The thing people must remember is the time frame game designers are needed to look at. When most people see a nerf they worry that their class will be useless in the coming days/weeks. But the designers i'm sure think about how it will affect the class months to come. This being said if some of these changes are around battlegrounds its a good time to do them. With rated battlegrounds coming out in Cata it only makes sense to nerf now and be able to gather a lot more data on the situation and how it affects the class and the situations it will be in. Perhaps its too early to say if any change now is in prep for whats to come but my guess is that they have been looking at BG's and other world pvp keeping in mind what they want to change for Cata and perhaps starting to balance that area a bit more than just for arena.