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Q u o t e:
You won't be grouped with anyone on your ignore list. Presumably this includes people cross-realm.

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Because clearly, you won't run into more than 50 ninjas/griefers/terrible players? The only limit to avoiding players in groups currently, even using the LFG system, is how many you care to remember to avoid. Automatically joining groups, with a penalty for then dropping it, does not allow for that option.

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Q u o t e:
That's correct.

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Which means that my initial description of griefing would be possible. A warning to everyone in Laughing Skull's battlegroup: expect this!


Edit:

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Q u o t e:
Maybe try it? Am I naive for thinking that World of Warcraft enthusiasts would be anxious to try something out and provide us feedback on it before spending hours on the forums expressing assumptions about all of the least-ideal situations which could arise?

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Zarhym, you've got it wrong, man, at least from my perspective. I have full confidence that the system will more quickly find people groups. My concern is that the already low accountability for obnoxious behavior (i.e. ninjaing, griefing, or wasting others' time by expecting them to make up for your terrible gameplay) will be dropping even lower--that's something immediately deducible from the system, and requires no playtest.

Whether or not people will take advantage of it does take a playtest, I agree. But this is a game where you guys are already including in the yellow announcements upon logging in to remember to loot quest items. Thus, it strikes me that this change, which will open up players more to being taken advantage of (in a way completely indefensible, as a list of 50 players to ignore across an entire battlegroup is a drop in the bucket compared to those who would be doing the taking advantage), is incongruous with Blizzard's other recent "protect the players" changes.

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Q u o t e:
Maybe try it? Am I naive for thinking that World of Warcraft enthusiasts would be anxious to try something out and provide us feedback on it before spending hours on the forums expressing assumptions about all of the least-ideal situations which could arise?

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Oh. These aren't World of Warcraft enthusiasts. These are World of Warcraft forum posters.

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Q u o t e:


Maybe for you, but I have 6 80's (5 alliance, 1 horde), as well as 5 additional alliance (all above level 65) who I am leveling. I don't sit around in a city waiting for a raid to pop up, or the daily heroic. Instead I hop on an alt, put it in LFG, and watch the channel for groups (I use a tool that tracks my instance/raid resets on all my toons, so I already know who has done what), and if I see a group I'm interested in, I msg the leader my 80's name, and hop over to it. This is perfect, as it takes a while to get raids a lot of the time, and if your looking to do a heroic other than H ToC or the daily, it can take a LONG time as well. So I make use of that time, instead of just sitting around the city. And so far I don't seem to be the only one. With the new tool, the idea is Heroics will be formed very fast, but it doesn't help me at all with the raids, which is the ones that I have the biggest problem with.

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Just to let you know, the majority doesn't go that far to get in a raid. They either wait, or leave it and do something else.

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Q u o t e:

The tool is not being taken away. The functionality is being infinitely expanded to make finding a random group for an instance faster, easier, and more reliable than ever before. But instead of trying it out, you're putting your foot down on the idea of being selected to run a dungeon with players from different realms.

Maybe try it? Am I naive for thinking that World of Warcraft enthusiasts would be anxious to try something out and provide us feedback on it before spending hours on the forums expressing assumptions about all of the least-ideal situations which could arise?

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Fine, I'll wait for the tool to come out before I complain about the Instance portion of it, as if it works like it should, and I can get a group in a minute or two, I'm fine with that. But what about for Raids? Are raids being made cross-battlegroup? If not, than my point stands. Getting a VoA 10/25, Ony 10/25, OS 10/25, etc. raid can take quite a while (especially for things like Naxx, OS, etc. that very few run anymore) to get. I lurk constantly in LFG just so I don't miss that random raid I really would like to do, losing this ability will be a pain.

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Q u o t e:

The tool is not being taken away. The functionality is being infinitely expanded to make finding a random group for an instance faster, easier, and more reliable than ever before. But instead of trying it out, you're putting your foot down on the idea of being selected to run a dungeon with players from different realms.

Maybe try it? Am I naive for thinking that World of Warcraft enthusiasts would be anxious to try something out and provide us feedback on it before spending hours on the forums expressing assumptions about all of the least-ideal situations which could arise?

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Try to understand. They're not upset that they're being grouped with people not from their realm. They are upset because they are grouped with people -randomly- and -automatically-. They're not upset at the loss of an exclusively in-realm LFG, they're upset at the loss of:
1. Being able to screen and choose exactly who you want to bring, something no automatic system could ever hope to match. Even simple things like classes, comments, and seeing the odd person you know.
2. Being able to utilise this feature from ANYWHERE in the world, enabling them to do other things while simultaneously looking for a group.

People aren't being selfish, they aren't being arrogant. They just don't want their choices taken away.

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Q u o t e:

The tool is not being taken away. The functionality is being infinitely expanded to make finding a random group for an instance faster, easier, and more reliable than ever before. But instead of trying it out, you're putting your foot down on the idea of being selected to run a dungeon with players from different realms.

Maybe try it? Am I naive for thinking that World of Warcraft enthusiasts would be anxious to try something out and provide us feedback on it before spending hours on the forums expressing assumptions about all of the least-ideal situations which could arise?

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Never said I don't want the option (I know it's a hard word for a lot of folks at Blizz to understand) to find random people for groups from across the battlegroup.

Never said I'd never try it out.

Just said I want to be able to find groups just on my own server, with the current lfg system, as well as having the x-realm option.

Every system has its bads and good things about it but I really look forward to seeing this patch 3.3.

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Q u o t e:

Just to be clear, you can queue for the Dungeon System from anywhere with any number of players from your own realm (if perhaps maybe you have a couple of friends who want to run an instance with you). I'm just not sure if I should assume in your response that you're outright refusing to ever use the Dungeon System and will only use the Looking For Group channel, or if you've mixed up the difference between the Dungeon System tool and the Looking For Group channel.

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Okay, let me try to clear it up.

I'm perfectly happy with the new tool if it let's me get a heroic quickly. But if it's something that is going to take more than say 5-10 minutes, than it will be a problem. As it's not live today, I don't know how well it will work, so I will have to wait and see. I only used the LFG tool today to watch for heroics, because even on my realm as an alliance (a very high population realm), getting a group for any heroic that isn't the Normal/Heroic daily or H ToC is a very time consuming process.

Now the problem I do have however is with the raids. There is no clear understanding from what has been posted if the LFR tool is going to be cross-realm or still single realm. If it's going to be cross-realm, and it's going to be fast to find a raid (again 5-10 minutes), than fine. I won't have any problems. However if it's going to be only the current realm, like it is today, than it's going to be an issue, as this is the other reason I use the LFG tool. Getting raids (especially the older ones that few run anymore such as OS 10/25, Naxx 10/25, etc.) can be a very time consuming process, and gives me plenty of time to go level an alt. If the change goes live as is, I will have to sit in a city on some toon just to watch for these raids, while I level my alts. This is the functionality that we seem to be losing, and maybe I'm a minority. I will work around it if I have too. I just see this as a step backwards.

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Q u o t e:
Every system has its bads and good things about it but I really look forward to seeing this patch 3.3.

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Then I repeat--I hope that none of the servers you play on are in the same battlegroup as Laughing Skull. If they are, be prepared to get griefed, since you have no way at all to know the players who'll do it, or to avoid them even if you do (taking as an assumption that there are more than 50 such players).

My first reaction was a negative one. I had the same feelings, I've met a few good friends through heroics. After I spent a few minutes with it on my mind, I realized its really a great idea. I wont have to spend 1 hour each day trying to find a tank, I'll be able to gear out my alts, and I'll be able to meet a wider variety of people.

The real problem I do seriously see with cross-realm instancing is reputation. A HUGE reason the WoW community is so friendly (On their realms, not so much the forums), is because on a realm people remember you, they remember what you've done, what you've said, whether it be good or bad, it builds a reputation.

I hate to compare WoW to Runescape, but in this point I think its very reasonable. Runescape doesn't have static realms, you can play on any one. Why is everyone a !!@!##% in that game? Because theres no reason to build a reputation. You can be a *##@ to one person, and no one will remember you. You can steal items from people, and no one will notice but the person stolen from.

The majority of players like myself will never try and ninja items, or insult people without reason, I'd say the majority of players are good people who want to have a good time. The problem is that the !!@!##%s, who only pretend to be nice so people on their realm like them will be free to be themselves.

Trade chat is the lfg anyway

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Q u o t e:

Just to be clear, you can queue for the Dungeon System from anywhere with any number of players from your own realm (if perhaps maybe you have a couple of friends who want to run an instance with you). I'm just not sure if I should assume in your response that you're outright refusing to ever use the Dungeon System and will only use the Looking For Group channel, or if you've mixed up the difference between the Dungeon System tool and the Looking For Group channel.

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Zarhym, the guy you've quoted has exactly the same issue I do with the system. You're playing a lowbie alt, say level 30 in STV. You join the global LFG channel by hook or by crook (usually by looking for group in a 'Zone') and monitor the LFG channel for dungeons/raids appropriate to your level 80 main. When one comes up you either whisper the guy and say "I'll come on my main, stats <blah>" or switch across and join up.

The new system closes this option off completely. Don't get me wrong, the new LFG tool looks bloody fantastic in comparison to the old one. All we're asking is that you retain the global aspect of the LookingForGroup channel in your implementation.

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Q u o t e:

I'm arguing it because you're being an overdramatic crybaby. The sky is not falling, and if finding an RP group is critical to enough people on your server, they will adapt. Pretty much the only RPing on RP servers is in guilds anyway. Hell, just have the largest guilds all agree on one channel and tell their members to join it.

They reason the old LFG is being removed should be obvious, competing tools that do the same thing lead to user confusion. It's a fairly fundamental design concept. The new LFG is vastly better in almost every way. There are always going to be niche cases and outliers where it falls down, but an overall improvement in user experience for the largest number of people is the goal.

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Let me try to rephrase myself so you'll understand, then. I don't have an issue with the new tool, I think it is likely going to be an improvement for most people. What I have an issue with, and what has been an issue with Blizzard in many similar circumstances, is the removal of options people do use and enjoy - such as a global LFG channel. Do you see a single compelling reason it can't stay global? Honestly?

I've studied game design, I know how these things work. You're absolutely right about what the main goal should be, but an equally fundamental pillar of iterative game design is that once you've established the rules of play, the framework for a game and given it to players, the only reason to restrict that framework should be to fix up a crucial flaw in the game. This is not the case here. The only reason to remove global LFG (or failing that, disallow an option in the new tool to search only within your own server) is to tell players to play a certain way, which has historically never gone over particularily well among gamers, on WoW or elsewhere.

hi

everyone i do heroics with are usually arrogant people.

They call me an overgeared scrub, or they say i have easy raid epics and i still suck.

Even though i top the meters and stuff.

so hitting lfg and getting an instant group where i can just not talk, or if i do, not care since they arent on my server

all the better

/thread

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Q u o t e:


Zarhym, the guy you've quoted has exactly the same issue I do with the system. You're playing a lowbie alt, say level 30 in STV. You join the global LFG channel by hook or by crook (usually by looking for group in a 'Zone') and monitor the LFG channel for dungeons/raids appropriate to your level 80 main. When one comes up you either whisper the guy and say "I'll come on my main, stats <blah>" or switch across and join up.

The new system closes this option off completely. Don't get me wrong, the new LFG tool looks bloody fantastic in comparison to the old one. All we're asking is that you retain the global aspect of the LookingForGroup channel in your implementation.

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Well said, this is exactly what I am saying, especially pertaining to raids.

Hey Zarhym,

Thanks for all your responses. I think it sounds neat. A new option, so to speak. It's just another way to access more people to play with. I dislike begging to get a group together. There are a lot of pug groups now and I usually don't know all the people on my server anyway (that went away when realm transfers were introduced).
I can't wait to try the new system....sounds like I can get all my toons going as there will be more playing opportunities :)

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Q u o t e:


Okay, let me try to clear it up.

I'm perfectly happy with the new tool if it let's me get a heroic quickly. But if it's something that is going to take more than say 5-10 minutes, than it will be a problem. As it's not live today, I don't know how well it will work, so I will have to wait and see. I only used the LFG tool today to watch for heroics, because even on my realm as an alliance (a very high population realm), getting a group for any heroic that isn't the Normal/Heroic daily or H ToC is a very time consuming process.

Now the problem I do have however is with the raids. There is no clear understanding from what has been posted if the LFR tool is going to be cross-realm or still single realm. If it's going to be cross-realm, and it's going to be fast to find a raid (again 5-10 minutes), than fine. I won't have any problems. However if it's going to be only the current realm, like it is today, than it's going to be an issue, as this is the other reason I use the LFG tool. Getting raids (especially the older ones that few run anymore such as OS 10/25, Naxx 10/25, etc.) can be a very time consuming process, and gives me plenty of time to go level an alt. If the change goes live as is, I will have to sit in a city on some toon just to watch for these raids, while I level my alts. This is the functionality that we seem to be losing, and maybe I'm a minority. I will work around it if I have too. I just see this as a step backwards.

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To my understanding, the LFR feature is entirely separate from the LFG feature. LFR is limit to in-realm, but it can be accessed from anywhere in the world, similar to how the current LFG feature works.

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Q u o t e:
The real problem I do seriously see with cross-realm instancing is reputation. A HUGE reason the WoW community is so friendly (On their realms, not so much the forums), is because on a realm people remember you, they remember what you've done, what you've said, whether it be good or bad, it builds a reputation.

The majority of players like myself will never try and ninja items, or insult people without reason, I'd say the majority of players are good people who want to have a good time. The problem is that the !!@!##%s, who only pretend to be nice so people on their realm like them will be free to be themselves.

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You're another for whom, for your sake, I hope doesn't play on any server in Laughing Skull's battlegroup. Not only would you likely get griefed early and often, but your entire outlook regarding warcraft players would get wrecked.

EDIT:
@Wogehkak:
If you're doing 2k DPS, they're reasonable, though not necessarily polite, to not want to group with you. Who are you to say that players no other realms shouldn't get the same option that ones on your realm currently have--that is, to avoid as many players as they like, while using an available list to find a group?

Note that I don't claim you are doing 2k dps, just presenting this hypothetically. There are valid reasons to want to avoid more than 50 people on a single server, let alone just 50 out of a battlegroup.