Now competing with Shadowform for the most cluttered tooltip.

now a question - might prot find more uses for it now?

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Q u o t e:
now a question - might prot find more uses for it now?

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Not really. It's only helpful when there's a lot of AoE damage going out. Obviously if only the tank is taking damage, then there's no reason to use it. If everyone is taking damage, you'll still need to bubble beforehand.

I suppose it would be possible to design a fight where a non-tank takes enough damage that redirecting it to the tank is useful, but doesn't kill the tank. Even if they added a fight like that, in a raid you'll probably have a healer assigned to healing those people anyway. For tanks, I think it's still a 5-man talent, or a talent for gimmick fights like Mimiron phase 2 where you aren't actually tanking anything.

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Q u o t e:
Macawber wrote stuff

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The latest iteration of Divine Sacrifice on the PTR will break early if the Paladin dips below 20% health, effectively rendering DSac as an effect which will never prove to be fatal.

As a non-tank, Divine Sacrifice is an excellent external tank cooldown, or DR for your party/raid against boss AOE. You'll almost never have to synchronize it with bubble, since it will never kill you. You'd only have to bubble if you're in danger of dying from damage you'll be taking yourself.

As a tank, if you also have DGuardian, you can ask to be placed in your own party and have a 20% mini-Shield Wall for yourself. A massive attack will break the effect, but not before being reducing that same massive attack.

A separate group might not even be necessary if the rest of the group aren't expected to take any damage themselves - you're still buying yourself half a Pain Suppression.

Divine Sacrifice
Instant 2 min cooldown
30% of all damage taken by party members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin (up to a maximum of 40% of the Paladin's health times the number of party members). Damage which reduces the Paladin below 20% health will break the effect. Can't cast if there's no other party members or no party members nearby (nice try). As long as you put 2 points in Divine Guardian, which you will if you're not an idiot, while Divine Sacrifice is active, your party and raid members within 30 yards take 20% reduced damage. That includes you. If you don't want to take extra damage, you can cancel Divine Sacrifice by right clicking or using a macro and still keep the Divine Guardian buff (which is probably the only reason you take this talent). Enjoy that while it lasts, which probably won't be long. Oh, and good luck getting any loot once raids starting stacking 12 Paladin tanks. Lasts 10 sec.

I actually don't understand the logic in making it party only. Does that not promote pally stacking "in the most extream occasions"? If AoE damage is big in ICC hardmodes I hope this doesn't turn into another shaman BL.....

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Q u o t e:
The latest iteration of Divine Sacrifice on the PTR will break early if the Paladin dips below 20% health, effectively rendering DSac as an effect which will never prove to be fatal.

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Even if it won't actually kill you any more, I think the point still stands. In situations where it's useful, you'll pop it and hit 20% pretty quick and the effect will wear off. In situations where it's not useful, it won't matter much whether you specced into it or not, or if you hit the button or not. I'll probably still put one point into it just for the once in a blue moon situation where it's helpful. But the announced changes so far don't make it into an awesome tanking talent (also I'm assuming that the whole put yourself into group 6 alone thing won't go live).

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Q u o t e:
I actually don't understand the logic in making it party only. Does that not promote pally stacking "in the most extream occasions"? If AoE damage is big in ICC hardmodes I hope this doesn't turn into another shaman BL.....

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See that mole hill over there? It is REALLY A MOUNTAIN!

Seriously, it is better to stack paladins for the current DSac+DG talents, but it isn't happening. What makes you think that them nerfing its ability to cover the whole raid will cause people to do it?

For instance:
Stick the pally in a group by himself = -20% damage taken by the raid
Have a the pally in a group = -50% damage for his group, -20% damage for everyone else
Current DSac+DG = -40% damage for the raid

It will only be an issue if ICC encounters are designed around having it. Now, saying all raiding paladins have this doesn't mean they are stacking the raid, as it IS a nice perk, but until I see the common strat on how to beat something is to "bring 5+ paladins just to be able to Divine Sacrifice the whole raid", I am going to continue to say that this is being blown WAY out of proportion.

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Q u o t e:
Seriously, it is better to stack paladins for the current DSac+DG talents, but it isn't happening. What makes you think that them nerfing its ability to cover the whole raid will cause people to do it?

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It's not currently an advantage to stack more paladins than is necessary to DS every big raid damage spike. Assuming a group-only DS, it will absolutely be an advantage after 3.3 to bring enough paladins to cover every group for a raid damage spike on a 5 minute timer.

Currently, it's advantageous to bring enough paladins who have specced in to DS to cover every raid burst situation. Assuming those come every two to three minutes, you'll want to bring at least 2 non-tanking paladins with DS.

If DS is made party-only, raid leaders have an incentive to bring enough paladins to DS the entire raid every two to three minutes. In other words, there's an incentive to bring two or three paladins per party (assuming one paladin tank, that means 6 out of 25 spots will be filled by a paladin). Maybe fights will be designed so that DS isn't much of an advantage (in which case maybe it's time to rethink the talent altogether). But it's not safe to assume that will be the case. I don't think it's a good design to encourage paladin stacking in this manner.

interesting. i haven't specced into dsac since 3.2 hit, i had switched to aura mastery and haven't raided much because toc's so boring, guess i'll have to switch back for 3.3

This talent is confusing.

I have several questions:

1. Does the paladin in group 6 by himself still receive 20% damage reduction?
2. Can a holy pally still trigger this talent and grant the raid 20% reduced damage taken from group 7?
3. Why would anyone spec Divine Guardian now?
4. Is there any way that 12 paladins in a raid providing 20% constant DR wouldn't be overpowered?

They need to consolidate the tooltip some, IMO.



"Just take this freaking talent, your party will love you for it.


Seriously, just take it."


That should suffice.

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Q u o t e:
This talent is confusing.

I have several questions:

1. Does the paladin in group 6 by himself still receive 20% damage reduction?
2. Can a holy pally still trigger this talent and grant the raid 20% reduced damage taken from group 7?
3. Why would anyone spec Divine Guardian now?
4. Is there any way that 12 paladins in a raid providing 20% constant DR wouldn't be overpowered?

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Based on what I've understood:

1) Yes, and it'll help the whole raid, too.
2) Yes.
3) 20% raidwide DR comes from DG now. DS is damage transfer from the party only. The question becomes, who will only spec DS now?
4) No, that would almost always be overpowered, and I'm sure a mechanic will be put in place to prevent it.

*scratches head*

Okay so if you use divine shield in combination with divine sacrifice does that effectively mean that the entire group you're with takes 20% less damage and DS makes you immune to the damage redirected to you?

(wrong talent)

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Q u o t e:


Based on what I've understood:

1) Yes, and it'll help the whole raid, too.
2) Yes.
3) 20% raidwide DR comes from DG now. DS is damage transfer from the party only. The question becomes, who will only spec DS now?
4) No, that would almost always be overpowered, and I'm sure a mechanic will be put in place to prevent it.

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If this is the case, then massive changes need to be made to this talent. Even if all it did was provide prot paladins with a third cooldown as long as they were in their own group, it'd be overpowered. If this talent goes live as currently described above it is the most attractive three talent points that any raiding ret, prot or holy paladin could take.

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Q u o t e:
*scratches head*

Okay so if you use divine shield in combination with divine sacrifice does that effectively mean that the entire group you're with takes 20% less damage and DS makes you immune to the damage redirected to you?

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Supposedly the Divine Shield "trick" is what they were fixing when they said:

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Q u o t e:
Divine Sacrifice: Redesigned. The effect of Divine Sacrifice is now party-only and the maximum damage which can be transferred is now limited to 40% of the paladin’s health multiplied by the number of party members. In addition, the bug which allowed Divine Sacrifice to sometimes persist despite reaching its maximum damage has been fixed. Divine Sacrifice will now cancel as soon as its maximum damage value is exceeded in all cases. Finally, damage which reduces the paladin’s health below 20% now cancels the effect early.

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but with bubble up your dsac won't break from you hitting 20% though, so it will absorb 200% of your hp or whatever, instead of 80%

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Q u o t e:
but with bubble up your dsac won't break from you hitting 20% though, so it will absorb 200% of your hp or whatever, instead of 80%

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So the amount of damage still tallies up, you just won't actually take the damage. Essentially, it ensures that you absorb the full amount of damage rather than breaking early because you dropped to below 20% health.

Am I understanding this correctly?

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So the amount of damage still tallies up, you just won't actually take the damage. Essentially, it ensures that you absorb the full amount of damage rather than breaking early because you dropped to below 20% health.

Am I understanding this correctly?

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This is immaterial, as paladins using (abusing?) this talent will simply be placed in a group by themselves, ensuring that they absorb no extra damage.

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Q u o t e:


This is immaterial, as paladins using (abusing?) this talent will simply be placed in a group by themselves, ensuring that they absorb no extra damage.

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Then it's a given that it won't stay that way for very long.