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Q u o t e:


Fresh 80's and alts have no business jumping right into Ulduar and beyond. It's absurd. My goodness... people should at least do some Heorics first and get some badge gear, maybe craft some gear.

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When did I say anything about Ulduar and beyond?

It would make it more hopeless for fresh 80s and new alts to nab a simple heroic PuG.

"Look", says the 'skillscore' mod, "no achievements, blue gear. Yuck."
"Look", says the 'skillscore' mod, "what a stud. Triumph gear! Naxx cleared, Uld cleared, ToC cleared."

The first guy's a new alt, whose main has run all of these heroics hundreds of times. But he's sure not going to get an invite from anyone using a "skillscore" mod...despite having already done these heroics, on three previous toons, in blue gear.

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Q u o t e:


I actually agree with you. I use these addons myself. But to hear a GM defend the addons by saying "try doing the encounters without them and tell me how it goes for you" is stupid to say the least. If the encounters are too hard to beat without addons then why arent these addons already part of the WoW UI? Why do I have to download them from some 3rd party website if the GM's say we NEED these to beat the game.

In before someone says something about my gearscore or achievments. I dont play this game hardly at all anymore. So that said... take what I say with a grain of salt.

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Good thing you can read /*teeheehee*] What was said is

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Q u o t e:
Anything that's going to help determine a group's preparedness, experience, coordination, and synergy is going to promote success. If you think these systems of measurement are destroying the game, I suggest you put together a raid for 25-player Ulduar or Trial of the Crusader. I suggest you put forth no criteria for players that must be met in order to be invited to the raid. I suggest you tell them there will be no vent or raid warnings for coordinating during boss fights. Get back to me with your results. :)

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in response to

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Q u o t e:

1. No "vent"rilo, no loot

2. Whats your DPS?

3. Checking Armory/Geaerschore before invite

4. PST w/ achievement and stats or no reply

5. Must have DBMs or some other type Boss add-ons (isn't WoW easy enough?) To those that say WoW is easy, conquer raids without using any add-ons or DBM type programs. Then we'll see how easy this game is.

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read ALL of the post being responded to

Now if you put try to put a TotC25 together stating anyone regardless of gear or experience can enter you will get a *not nice* geared group that most likely hasn't even read up the boss fights, now you will trust these *lolipops* to somehow pull off the *teamwork* without you guiding these *pony princesses* through vent or raid warnings * believe it*

Edit: Now with 100% more rainbows and huggles

All of this can be alleviated by joining a casual raid guild (or making one) with your friends. Whenever anyone gets up to level 80 on a main in our guild, if they want, we can generally throw together enough ToC 5 man non-heroic runs to get them geared fairly quickly, and craft them/help them get an iLevel200 weapon.

It usually takes about a week to get someone geared enough to do non-hard modes, though our guild only raids twice a week and thus hasn't beaten all the Keepers yet, nor gotten past Twin Valkyr.

The point, I guess, is try not to PuG with asshats, and it won't be an issue.

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Q u o t e:


You aren't exactly helping your cause speaking to people like that. Nor is it going to get you much respect with the majority of the community. Don't make me wash out your mouth with soap kid!

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cuz people really care wut other people think of them on the internet lolol. if you think that you should go outside more often.

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Q u o t e:


Well that all well and good to sprout this stuff.
how about you post the figures for all classes and there output in dps thru all levels of 80 gear progression from i180 to i270.
This rubbish only makes new players to the game confused as to what they should be outputting.

would be nice to have averages for dps in heroics 1 month after wotlk. just to see what it was.

Because what people spout about doing certain dps and what they did are 2 different things.

Bit hard to shoot for a goal when you don’t know how far the goal is away from you. or what your classes goal is and what others are accurately averaging at or before the goal.

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Be proactive, do some research, post on your class forums. You will find answers if you look for them instead of waiting for them. It's all so accessible.

All gearscore and achievements did was take a task that required looking someone up on the armory and questioning their ability and automate it.

And like Z said, if the game weren't in it's curent state, you would not even see people trying to put together pugs for raid content. Would you rather get turned down for a pug raid or never see one at all?

I will agree that using it for heroics is unnecessary as long as the tank has enough defense nothing else really matters much.

so in order to play the end game and have a chance at good loot I need to download programs and addons that are not created by blizzard?

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Q u o t e:
Be proactive, do some research, post on your class forums. You will find answers if you look for them instead of waiting for them. It's all so accessible.

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But I'm laaaaaaaaaaaaaazy.

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Q u o t e:
...up up down down left right left right...

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Why is it always this one?

HEHEHE

Konami.

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Q u o t e:
The anthem for the army of alts on this forums. I am just glad a blue is stating what everyone knows, there is nothing wrong with putting work into your gear, and that will get you into groups a hell of alot faster then crying that you didnt get picked for the baseball team.

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Sadly enough, I actually am lazy, in that I don't want to get Naxx geared, to get Uld geared, to get ToC geared, to get ICC geared.
So I PvP.

Yay.

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Q u o t e:

Sadly enough, I actually am lazy, in that I don't want to get Naxx geared, to get Uld geared, to get ToC geared, to get ICC geared.
So I PvP.

Yay.

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Lifetime honorable kills: 6371

...just not very often...

(I'm teasing dammit!)

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Q u o t e:

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Q u o t e:


What's your reasoning behind these criteria being demanded for 5 man heroics?

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There's no good reason for that. Sure, a good chunk of players wants to blow through Heroics farming emblems and don't want fresh 80's holding them back. I'd still argue it's not going to make it exceptionally difficult to find a reasonable group for Heroics. I still PUG a lot of Heroics and meet plenty of perfectly cordial folks.

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Sorry to semi-necro this post, but it's an incomplete response. The complete response being "gearscore is a poor way to enforce it, but it's absolutely rational and fair to enforce criteria on any voluntarily undertaken multiplayer content."

On my alt druid, who hit 80 Oct 5, when I pug 80s for ToC5 (or HToC) as the tank, I'm nearly always at least second on DPS, and often first. I haven't been inspecting people or armorying them before inviting (gearscore is worthless, anyway, of course)...but how on earth is it unreasonable for me to want DPS who actually fill that role? Instead, my time is wasted while they have the option to match my probability of reward, despite the fact that I have been far more effective at securing those rewards for the group. I don't refer to individuals pulling 2.5k DPS instead of 3k--I mean the ones pulling 900-1100 when I, as a (relatively) freshly 80 tank, am doing 1.5-2k.

I'm involved in their lives for, say, 12-20 minutes (depending on if I happened to get DPS who actually do damage or not), and am under no obligation to talk to them past saying "kill skull then X" once. I'm in a guild for a reason; my social interactions are with those players. Given that tiny window of even tinier interaction, why should I prefer even a cordial group member who wastes my time to one who's rude, I can put on /ignore, and gets me to my goal faster? We're not talking about having to put up with a person for days, we're talking 12 minutes to at most 3 hours (a bad naxx pug, rather than a ToC5), in my entire life.

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Q u o t e:
Lifetime honorable kills: 6371

...just not very often...

(I'm teasing dammit!)

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I just came to this revelation, be patient with me.
I'm also leveling a druid, so my virtual hands are tied.

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Q u o t e:

The complete response being "gearscore is a poor way to enforce it, but it's absolutely rational and fair to enforce criteria on any voluntarily undertaken multiplayer content."

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I approve of this statement. Yes to criteria, booo to Gearscore.

To be honest, The damage meter somewhat killed raiding as a warlock for me, I do 5-6k Dps, But if I do 4 I get seen as lazy If I do 6 I'm still below those guys at 7+

And I get compared to people mostly a complete tier above me with optimal gear, then It's pretty much. "You're not as good as X so you're not good."

:/

Healing's lots of fun though.

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Q u o t e:
To be honest, The damage meter somewhat killed raiding as a warlock for me, I do 5-6k Dps, But if I do 4 I get seen as lazy If I do 6 I'm still below those guys at 7+

And I get compared to people mostly a complete tier above me with optimal gear, then It's pretty much. "You're not as good as X so you're not good."

:/

Healing's lots of fun though.

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This is my warlock, Back in Piecoil with him now though. Ignore the guild tag, My above post doesn't mean Damage meters are bad though. They're required for the most part i believe.

Gear score I believe is a bit silly. Hi, I have 213(?) Boots.
I'm just going to hide the fact that they have Mp5 on them though, While not as bad as a Hunter with 245 cloth stuff to look good on gearscore, It in reality They're not Ilvl 213 for me, Therefore I should be deducted on that.

(Normally I'm hit capped. I just have tons of spare gear to tweak around based on my hit needs though. Feel free to armory and bash all you want though. :P)

I believe players should just make their own decisions. Something like gearscore is exploitable. Even the devs (Most likely jokingly) thought of putting in an Ilvl 300 shirt or something To screw around with it.

It's just quite silly. We didn't need gear score before. I don't think we need it now. People should just use common sense.

TLDR: The last six words.