I love the work you're doing!

If you have time though, any chance you could revisit the mana cost of shadowform for 3.3? Thx!

Can we also add the Mind Flay range increase as a shadowform buff instead of a baseline spell buff? This would keep low-level shadowers (if there are any) close and personal with their mobs as they level.

But most importantly, it would elongate the shadowform tooltip. And I think we can all agree that a buff to the tooltip is well deserved.

Given the opportunity cost of shifting to heal and the loss of utility, damage, and survivability, Shadowform should cost absolutely nothing but a GCD.

I get the rationale that shifting should be a choice and therefore involve a tradeoff, but look at Shadowform's tooltip and then consider what it implies. Shadowpriests give up a lot by choosing to shift out and heal — far more than other hybrids give up, except perhaps for Moonkin.

(Since I can see this coming—)

The difference between Shadowform and Moonkin, though, is that druids gain a benefit from shifting. Besides snare breaks, Cat provides benefits, Bear provides benefits, Travelform provides benefits, etc. Shadowpriests have no equivalent dynamic, and I might add that Moonkin have already had the mana cost of Moonkin form reduced in a recent patch (13% of base mana vs. 32% of base mana).

The other alternative is to actually provide a benefit to the Shadowpriest for shifting into or out of Shadowform other than the spurious "advantage" of giving them access to the rest of their spellbook at an enormous cost.

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The difference between Shadowform and Moonkin, though, is that druids gain a benefit from shifting. Besides snare breaks, Cat provides benefits, Bear provides benefits, Travelform provides benefits, etc. Shadowpriests have no equivalent dynamic, and I might add that Moonkin have already had the mana cost of Moonkin form reduced in a recent patch (13% of base mana vs. 32% of base mana).

The other alternative is to actually provide a benefit to the Shadowpriest for shifting into or out of Shadowform other than the spurious "advantage" of giving them access to the rest of their spellbook at an enormous cost.

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I agree that Shadowform needs a reduced mana cost, but your argument is pretty ignorant. Play a Moonkin.

The benefit of shifting into Shadowform is damage reduction and a significant damage increase. It would be nice if Shadowform had -active- abilities that unlocked after shifting. Dispersion could have been one of those ;)

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I agree that Shadowform needs a reduced mana cost, but your argument is pretty ignorant. Play a Moonkin.

The benefit of shifting into Shadowform is damage reduction and a significant damage increase. It would be nice if Shadowform had -active- abilities that unlocked after shifting. Dispersion could have been one of those ;)

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I honestly don't think the redux is working. Spriets with imp inner fire + glyph of inner fire + shadowform should have around 52-55% phys reduction, but they're still being hit as if they're a warlock or mage. Paladins take much less damage and generally have less %. So I'm gonna assume something is wrong with the 15% from sform.

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I honestly don't think the redux is working. Spriets with imp inner fire + glyph of inner fire + shadowform should have around 52-55% phys reduction, but they're still being hit as if they're a warlock or mage. Paladins take much less damage and generally have less %. So I'm gonna assume something is wrong with the 15% from sform.

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Nothing's wrong with it. Damage reductions are not additive.


Inner Fire = 1580 armor.
Imp Inner Fire = +45% armor from Inner Fire.
Glyph of Inner Fire = +50% armor from Inner Fire.

Therefore, Inner Fire is 2440*1.50*1.45 = 5307 armor.
Plus add in your base armor. 2107 is average for a priest.
Your total armor is now 7414.

7414 armor is 32.74% damage reduction from physical attacks against a level 80 attacker.
Shadowform reduces damage taken by 15%.
A melee attack that hits you would be reduced by 15% and 32.74% multiplicatively.
(0.85*0.816) = 0.57171.
1-0.57171 = 0.42829 = 42.8% damage reduction from physical attacks, or you take 57% of the total physical damage.



Compare it with mine, a paladin wearing a shield.

I have several damage reducing talents:
Imp Righteous Fury - 6%
Glyph of Divine Plea - 3%
Blessing of Sanctuary - 3%
Shield of the Templar - 3%
0.94*0.97*0.97*0.97 = 0.8579.
1-0.8579 = 0.142 = 14.2% damage reduction.

Now we have my armor.
Imp Devo Aura = 1807 armor.
Add my armor, 26222+1807 = 64.79%

Therefore I take (1-0.6479)*(1-0.142) = 30.2% total damage from physical attacks, or my reduction is 69.8%.


So let's say a 2000 damage autoattack is coming in from an arms warrior at both of us.
You take 1143 damage from it.
I take 604 damage from it, assuming I don't block. Since my block value is 2515 with my libram buff, the attack has a chance to hit me for 0.

Notice how 604/1143 = 52.8%? I'm taking just over half the damage you are, even though my damage reduction is only 1.63 times yours. The reason for that is that each point of armor is worth the same. The more damage reduction you have, the more 1% of additional reduction is worth.



*Edited for correct inner fire numbers.

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Nothing's wrong with it. Damage reductions are not additive.


Inner Fire = 1580 armor.
Imp Inner Fire = +45% armor from Inner Fire.
Glyph of Inner Fire = +50% armor from Inner Fire.

Therefore, Inner Fire is 1580*1.50*1.45 = 3436 armor.

3436 armor is 18.4% damage reduction from physical attacks against a level 80 attacker.
Shadowform reduces damage taken by 15%.
A melee attack that hits you would be reduced by 15% and 18.4% multiplicatively.
(0.85*0.816) = 0.6936.
1-0.6936 = 30.64% damage reduction from physical attacks.

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Inner fire is 2440 unless you are level 70...

Could someone explain what is being changed with shadowform in 3.3? Thanks.

Your math on inner fire is correct, but as the above poster stated its 2440 armor. Which ends up being 5307 with talents and glyph.

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Could someone explain what is being changed with shadowform in 3.3? Thanks.

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Nothing is being changed, the OP is just hoping mana costs will be reduced to be more in line with other form changes. Druid form shifts also happen to remove roots, snares and polymorph, which means they are stronger than a shadow priest's.

edit: missing words.

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Your math on inner fire is correct, but as the above poster stated its 2440 armor. Which ends up being 5307 with talents and glyph.

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Thanks, I edited the post. I also forgot to include the base armor of a priest from wearing mid level epics. All fixed, plus added an example.

I hear the 56 pt shadow talent is going to be Holy Form.

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I agree that Shadowform needs a reduced mana cost, but your argument is pretty ignorant.

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And yet you said nothing to refute it.

It doesn't matter though, I'm not trying to start an argument about Moonkin. I know that Moonkin form is clunky and limiting as well. I was just preempting the (false) notion that Moonkin are in exactly the same boat as spriests; it's more like an adjacent boat.

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And yet you said nothing to refute it.

It doesn't matter though, I'm not trying to start an argument about Moonkin. I know that Moonkin form is clunky and limiting as well. I was just preempting the (false) notion that Moonkin are in exactly the same boat as spriests; it's more like an adjacent boat.

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Yeah, Moonkin's boat isn't sinking as fast since their armor buff doesn't go away after a certain number of hits?

Well, Balance and Shadow are arguably the weakest PvP specs in the game, and both have in common a necessary shapeshifting ability that locks them out of a large part of their spellbook. Coincidence?

I'm not sure what the rationale ever was that Balance Druids and Shadowpriests have to pay a higher price to heal as hybrid DPSers, but at this point in the game, it's an inexplicable handicap that their much stronger Paladin and Shaman counterparts do not share.

It's something that should be looked at, if not now, then for Cataclysm.

Wtb new shadowform animations/textures/art w/e.

WTT GC for a turtle mount

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I love the work you're doing!

If you have time though, any chance you could revisit the mana cost of shadowform for 3.3? Thx!

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That'd be nice, moonkin shifting is very cheap.

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Wtb new shadowform animations/textures/art w/e.

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But i thought you loved looking like a black blob in all the armor sets.

That new shiny mount texture! is still a black blob