What I know from testing........

Double Dipping.......

Currently the new Scourge Strike is double dipping on all damage reduction talents, abilities.

Example... Barkskin is reducing the damage of the ability twice. Once on the Physical Portion and Once on the Shadow Portion.

The Shadow portion of the ability only has a 150% crit bonus instead of 200% like all our other spells.

The Shadow portion is also affected by resilience as well as the physical portion. So if someone has a 40% crit damage reduction they will reduce the physical damage portion that crits by 40%, and then the shadow portion if it crits will take another 40% when it is already being reduced by the physical crit portion from resilience. If it doesn't crit then it will still be reduced by whatever flat damage reduction the person has from resilience.

The shadow portion crit part is hard to test because against pvp targets it just never crits because it appears to be working off spell crit.

This is a issue because it's also working off spell hit. This is causing the second portion to miss.

Opinions......

While this might be a incredible pve BUFF (I honestly don't know), it is a massive pvp nerf. The strike is incapable of critting for over 4500 against any armor level target that is wearing more then 800 resilience. That 4500 is on a double crit and I only saw one out of all the pvp I did on the PTR.

Everything else is in the high 2ks on crits to low 3ks. The strike's damage in pvp is extremely inconsistant as well because there are so many damage reduction procs and buffs that happen in pvp that you will crit for 3300 and then follow that crit up for 2600.

I can't give any positive feedback on this ability or any constructive feedback as far as how to improve it because it's bad in so many places.

On top of all this....... It's going to require even more stat stacking for Unholy DKs, and the disease cleansing issue was so bad that I don't even know what to say. The strike's damage is so bad against pvp geared targets and disease cleansing on top of it just completely negates the ability.

Edit: Ghostcrawler locked the other thread so please keep this thread constructive and keep the whining low even though I know it will be hard if you have tested this ability out on the PTR.

Just try to add any information that I didn't list in this thread. I will post more information as I get it. I gotta go to dinner soon so I will have to test it more when I get back.

the shadow damage portion is not recieving bonus crit chance from the tallents subversion, vicious strikes or annihilation either.

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Q u o t e:
the shadow damage portion is not recieving bonus crit chance from the tallents subversion, vicous strikes or annihilation either.

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Yeah i shoulda added that to the original post. I just assumed when I said spell crit it would know not to include talents.

The crit bonus from Subversion isn't being added to the ability either, however I am not sure if that is intentional or not.

Is it double dipping on damage bonuses?

My feedback is that when I arena, I play the game of "keep the diseases on the target" and that leads sometimes to missing a lot of pvp cues and usually messing up, or not focusing on my surroundings and being on the wrong position etc. I think it would be more fun to focus on the game around me than the disease minigame.

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Q u o t e:
the shadow damage portion is not recieving bonus crit chance from the tallents subversion, vicous strikes or annihilation either.

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Well it hits for 800psichaldmg+650shadowdmg CRIT on pvp geared moonkin he had no barskin on atm he was a friend of mine letting me test my dmg,iam a player idk much about theorycraft but it looks so damn weak compared to my warrior MS.
I like the new boneshield tho thats kinda fair now i dont have to put it on every 60sec wasting an unholy rune.

has anyone tested the damage with some armor pen? It sure does sound like the spell portion of the strike is still bugged. i doubt they'd make that the only ability a dk has that doesn't crit for 200%. I think they'll end up making it roll once for both parts to crit. I think they'll kind of combine the damage so it doesnt double dip vs resil. its still really early in ptr.

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Q u o t e:
The crit damage should definitely be at 200% (as are all DK spell attacks). I suspect the spell hit, if that is indeed happening, is also a bug.

We're going to wait for more numbers to trickle in before we make any additional decisions.

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Constructive thread gets constructive response!

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Q u o t e:
Is it double dipping on damage bonuses?

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Not that I can see.

Since the first part of the strike is physical it doesn't get any bonuses from shadow damage based talents which is all unholy is filled with. This will have to result in them greatly increasing the physical damage portion of the strike or no one will use it.

That aside, the secondary part of the affect benefits from Black Ice and Ebon Plague's spell damage boost. However because the spell damage portion of the strike is considered a spell and not a melee strike it doesn't get any other boost.

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Q u o t e:


Not that I can see.

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Thats a problem then if its double dipping on damage reductions.

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Q u o t e:


Not that I can see.

Since the first part of the strike is physical it doesn't get any bonuses from shadow damage based talents which is all unholy is filled with. This will have to result in them greatly increasing the physical damage portion of the strike or no one will use it.

That aside, the secondary part of the affect benefits from Black Ice and Ebon Plague's spell damage boost. However because the spell damage portion of the strike is considered a spell and not a melee strike it doesn't get any other boost.

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Test with and without Blood Presence, since it affects physical and shadow damage.

Unholy DKs now are going to /need/ ArP. I think it is a bad design to nerf something that is already bad in PvP. Yes, it /might/ be a pve buff in a 25 men enviroment where you have someone to sunder armor/expose armor for you, but in heroic, 10 men and pvp it is going to be a nerf.

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Q u o t e:
The crit damage should definitely be at 200% (as are all DK spell attacks). I suspect the spell hit, if that is indeed happening, is also a bug.

We're going to wait for more numbers to trickle in before we make any additional decisions.

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is the crit chance supposed to be based off of our spell crit or melee crit?

at the moment it seems to be based off of spell crit and not recieving bonus crit chance from Subversion, vicious strikes and annihilation tallents.

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Q u o t e:


Test with and without Blood Presence, since it affects physical and shadow damage.

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Ok the shadow portion is being affected by Blood Presence. It's also double dipping off atk power procs and trinkets.

It seems like with full raid buffs it will be a amazing scaling raiding ability for Unholy. However all the things that makes it awesome in pve makes it horrible in pvp.

With the resilience changes of 3.2 and the high up time on damage reduction talents in pvp makes this ability non-viable in pvp.

I really don't know how it can be fixed.

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Q u o t e:
Unholy DKs now are going to /need/ ArP. I think it is a bad design to nerf something that is already bad in PvP. Yes, it /might/ be a pve buff in a 25 men enviroment where you have someone to sunder armor/expose armor for you, but in heroic, 10 men and pvp it is going to be a nerf.

Blizzard developers sound like a portuguese in a brazilian joke "A portuguese rips off the legs of a spider and asks them to walk and the spider does it. After he rip off the 8th leg and the spider doesnt moves when he asks it to, he then concludes that when spiders lose all their legs they become deaf".

By now it is pretty clear that Scourge Strike damage during S6 was fine, and Blizzard should revert it back. Yes, Unholy damage in pve was lacking in that time, but was still managable and better than frost and blood in some fights.

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I know you are upset but these type of responses are not useful ><. Lets try to not get this thread locked. GC has opened up the lines of communication with us. Lets not make him regret it plz...

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Q u o t e:


Ok the shadow portion is being affected by Blood Presence. It's also double dipping off atk power procs and trinkets.

It seems like with full raid buffs it will be a amazing scaling raiding ability for Unholy. However all the things that makes it awesome in pve makes it horrible in pvp.

With the resilience changes of 3.2 and the high up time on damage reduction talents in pvp makes this ability non-viable in pvp.

I really don't know how it can be fixed.

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Sounds like it needs to be normalized a bit?

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Q u o t e:


Ok the shadow portion is being affected by Blood Presence. It's also double dipping off atk power procs and trinkets.

It seems like with full raid buffs it will be a amazing scaling raiding ability for Unholy. However all the things that makes it awesome in pve makes it horrible in pvp.

With the resilience changes of 3.2 and the high up time on damage reduction talents in pvp makes this ability non-viable in pvp.

I really don't know how it can be fixed.

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how does the second part double dip AP? the shadow dmg isnt effected by AP is it?

my understanding is its dmg is based directly off the first part, wich is effected by AP. isnt that still only 1 dip from AP?