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  • Scarlet Crusade
  • 300. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:52:55 PM PDT
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Mage: Any

2pc: Terrible. Haven't seen a bonus this bad in awhile.

4pc: 3 seconds is too short - in any spec you at most get 1 spell that the haste effects, and 12% tacked on to (especially for arcane) the 20%+ haste that well geared mages have won't drop the cast time enough to really make it a significant buff.

I think the set bonuses are completely lackluster compared to many other class bonuses that seem to be really strong and useful. I thought these were placeholders or something because they're so bad, pretty upset that they're not.

Also this post sums up my feelings pretty well.


Q u o t e:
Mage:Arcane
2pc: The global cooldown of Mirror Images makes this somewhat lackluster. Also concerned that you guys will make it exclude POM, not stack with AP, not stack with PI, or some other arbitrary, unnecessary, and non-standard mechanic for Mages.

4pc: Good concept but casting a Missile Barrage Arcane Missile will eat into about half of this effect, meaning only the next Arcane Blast (the weakest one) will get the haste effect. I guess it helps start new rotations faster, but I don't see it bring a major dps increase on its own.


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  • 301. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:53:02 PM PDT
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Elemental set bonus:

Why EVERY other class has "%" of damage or crit chance increase.. and shaman just cd reduced? i mean EVERY other dps class.... why not just follow the same sets ideia... why only elementals? ¬¬
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  • Spinebreaker
  • 302. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:53:28 PM PDT
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[MAGE]:[FIRE/ToTW]
2 piece – [The general idea behind this is unique and refreshing. However, I disagree with the bonus being tied to mirror image for the aforementioned reasons outlined by other posters -> (Mirror image as a threat dump or an aggro free nuke spree at the beginning of the fight). In most circumstances, I save Mirror Image for emergencies or for aggro sensitive pulls. I don't think it's fair to tie our defensive cooldown to a DPS increase. May I instead suggest something like:

When you cast your Combustion, Arcane Power or Icy Veins, increases damage by X% for Y Seconds.

This solidly ties the ability to offensive spells with 3 minute cool-downs with the exception of Arcane Power. You could potentially change the bonus for arcane mages to compensate since arcane power is on a 2 minute Cooldown.]

4 piece – [This has a serious problem that only aggravates our current weakness in encounters: Lag and the requirement for fight movement. Even with Living Bomb and Hotstreak, because of the nature of ignite mages are the most dependent on staying in place. If we had to move while this procced, it would be wasted. A lot of times when I consume my hotstreak, its because i have saved it for a portion of the fight where movement is required. This limitation favors making the proc a longer duration, at least 6 seconds, with a less powerful haste bonus.]

One man's PewPew is another man's QQ.
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  • 303. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:53:56 PM PDT
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Mage:any
2-piece: is going to bring us back to the days of the Warlock T8 2-set bonus: people will wear it in PvP, regardless of the resilience loss, just so they can blow people up.

Should probably be changed to something more PvE-oriented.

[ Post edited by Spampurge ]

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  • Turalyon
  • 305. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:54:43 PM PDT
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[PALADIN]:[RETRIBUTION]
2 piece – [This 2pc bonus is very nice, however not quite as good as our current T9 2pc bonus. I definitely see it as a possibility that paladins will use BOTH 2pc T9 and 2pc T10.]

4 piece – [This 4pc bonus is one of the worst that I have ever seen. Anything based on a procrate of only 4% is negligible. Yes, the actual value of this depends on what qualifies as a melee attack, but even if all of our special melee attacks counted, it still doesn't net much of a bonus. We are so GCD locked as it is, and even if when this did proc, it not like it would be a binding to press instantly. DS is 3rd in our priority list, and would probably remain there even with this bonus. This proc would have to be off the GCD to really be worth it and there is just much better bonuses that can be made.

What I dont understand is why our 2pc bonuses are constantly much better than our 4pc bonuses. The difference isnt a small margin either. Our current 2pc T9 is almost a 400 dps increase, while our current 4pc is well under 100 dps increase. It doesnt make sense to most of the paladin community. We are under the impression the 4pc bonus should be better for all of the obvious reasons. The same applies for Tier 10. It looks like its going to follow the same trend that Tier 9 did, and all that will happen is people will ignore 4pc bonus, unless they can obtain the 258ilevel tier pieces, which happen to be best in slot because of the stats alone, not the Tier bonus.

Why not make our 4pc T10 bonus something as simple as allowing Blood Corruption to crit?
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  • 306. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:55:02 PM PDT
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[Paladin]:[Retribution]
2 piece – [An excellent bonus, more damage from SoV Dot, SoV Proc and Judments will increase the DPS when you compare it to the T9 2set pieces bonus (a bonus that i found it to be very good, even when some say it's very bad]
4 piece – [This has to be the worst 4p Ret Paladin bonus on wotlk, divine storm prority is very low on our rotation and the cooldown is very low enough to make this bonus make no real diference (even less with 4% chance), it may make a diference on AoE situations if the chance were higher and all Damage proc it (like divine storm itself as it will count as 4 strikes and have higher change to proc it, but not as high to make it a divine storm spam]
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  • 307. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:55:53 PM PDT
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MAGE : Arcane

2 piece -

I like the idea of this bonus...but it will actually hurt me in some ways. I like the use of mirror images as a buffer between threat, and death so that I can properly time invisibility. I suppose with this talent I would use images as a damage cooldown (which is cool too, because that was how I thought the talent would originally work), and well just have to work with my threat more carefully. Overall, I like this and think it's a pretty good bonus (Although the GCD on mirror images hampers the duration you get the buff - Take away GCD on images please!)

4 piece -

I like this depending on how it works. If the haste bonus is applied *before* the cast speed (or GCD) of the next spell is calculated - then this is a very good bonus. However, if the haste bonus is applied after, say, my arcane missiles begins channeling, then I will get very little benefit from the set bonus (essentially ~2 seconds of the duration of the buff is gone) - Since I would have to wait until the end of the channel to get a hasted spell in.

The same goes for hot streak (and who cares about brain freeze, but same effect), if the haste is counted into the GCD you get put on from casting an instant-pyro, then it's a very good bonus - but if you have to wait for the GCD to finish then you are essentially losing ~1.2 seconds of the duration of the buff.

I hope the 4-piece functions properly - because it might even make using missile barrage earlier than 4 AB stacks more worthwhile...
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  • 308. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:56:28 PM PDT
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Rogue:Muti

2 Pc - This just seems strange to me. Reduce the amount of CP, and increase the proc %, that would be my suggestion.

4 Pc - Honestly, this does nothing for me. Am I using ToTT every CD? Yes, will I notice this bonus? No.

As many other people have already stated, these changes are very boring. I personally love aiming for the T gear so I can get the set bonus, but I really feel let down as of late. As a Muti rogue, my energy regen is fine, give me crit or damage, or something else. The T8 4pc was good. The T9 2pc and 4pc were pretty decent too, I just feel that this is a step backwards, and honestly not very comparable to the other class set bonuses.

I can easily see myself just passing right by T10 gear and going for something else, as the set bonus is just not enough anymore. I really hope these are changed as we get closer to release.

Blizzard Entertainment
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Bornakk
Blizzard Poster
  • 309. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:56:53 PM PDT
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We have made some updates to the sets in the number values so keep an eye out for them and continue to give us your feedback.

Update:
Mage 2 piece bonus – Hot Streak, Missile Barrage and Brain Freeze grant 12% haste for 5 sec.
Mage 4 piece bonus – Mirror Image is 30 sec and damage bonus is 18%.

Warrior 2 piece bonus - 2 piece bonus - When your Rend and Deep Wounds abilities deal damage you have a 2% chance to gain 20% attack power for 10 seconds.

Shark.
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  • Lightning's Blade
  • 310. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:57:28 PM PDT
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LOVE YOU BORNAKK

mage class status: metallic teal
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  • 311. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 01:59:08 PM PDT
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Q u o t e:
We have made some updates to the sets in the number values so keep an eye out for them and continue to give us your feedback.

Update:
Mage 2 piece bonus – Hot Streak, Missile Barrage and Brain Freeze grant 12% haste for 5 sec.
Mage 4 piece bonus – Mirror Image is 30 sec and damage bonus is 18%.

Warrior 2 piece bonus - 2 piece bonus - When your Rend and Deep Wounds abilities deal damage you have a 2% chance to gain 20% attack power for 10 seconds.



You have gained +500 reputation with mages. You are now Honored.

Bringing you the latest in animal polymorphism, conjured refreshments, and easy travel to major cities!

Oh yes, and I also DPS from time to time when they're desperate enough to consider a mage.
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  • Jubei'Thos
  • 312. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 02:00:02 PM PDT
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Q u o t e:
We have made some updates to the sets in the number values so keep an eye out for them and continue to give us your feedback.

Update:
Mage 2 piece bonus – Hot Streak, Missile Barrage and Brain Freeze grant 12% haste for 5 sec.
Mage 4 piece bonus – Mirror Image is 30 sec and damage bonus is 18%.

Warrior 2 piece bonus - 2 piece bonus - When your Rend and Deep Wounds abilities deal damage you have a 2% chance to gain 20% attack power for 10 seconds.



Shaman - Enhance

2pc - excellent
4pc - also seems great, but wat is the proc rate going to be? 1 ppm?

Mage - all

2pc - Since it has been changed, this is fantastic.

4pc - Very nice change.
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  • Altar of Storms
  • 313. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 02:00:08 PM PDT
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Druid (Feral):

2-Set:Your Swipe (Bear) and Lacerate abilities deal 20% additional damage and the cost of your Rip ability is reduced by 10 energy.

Bear bonus seems REALLY strong and expecting it to get nerfed down some.

The Rip bonus looks really lame. 10 energy off our combo finisher we use maybe once every 12 to 20 seconds (Depending on how your rotation works out and your glyphs). A few other options would have been to reduce the energy cost of shred by 5 energy or to allow your shred to extend the duration on your rake.

4-Set:Your Enrage ability no longer decreases your armor and instead decreases all damage taken by 12%, and the periodic damage done by your Rake ability can now be a critical strike.

The enrage bonus is great as is the rake critting. But isn't that just giving us back our full primal gore to begin with which you guys said was too strong? I really don't want to have my DPS balanced around requiring a certain set bonus. Unless the other classes bonuses are just as good.

R.I.P. Feral PvP, born 2.0 - died 3.0
R.I.P. Rogue-Lite PvP, born 3.0 - died 3.2.2
Long live Resto/Feral PvP Born 3.2.2 - ........
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  • Balnazzar
  • 315. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 02:00:25 PM PDT
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Mage : Any

2 piece - It's tied to a long cooldown ability that is used as an emergency button when I pull aggro or as a small dps increase. The purpose of the spell seems to be to confuse the enemy and not as an on demand DPS cooldown (like Icy Veins, Arcane Power, or Combustion). This bonus needs to be scrapped and replaced

4 piece - Could be interesting but it needs a slightly longer activation window before it is removed due to the time limit. Or better yet just make it apply to your next non-instant cast spell

Edit: Yay blue posting while I'm writing it ><. Ignore the above

[ Post edited by Lucissa ]

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  • Sisters of Elune
  • 316. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 02:00:35 PM PDT
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[Hunter]:[All]

2-piece - Fairly nice, even if it is a bit random for my tastes. 2-piece bonuses have conventionally been smaller in power, but more reliable, while the 4-piece is usually the random "oh awesome" ability.

4-piece - This honestly should be the 2-piece.

My Suggestion - Make the current 4-piece into the 2-piece (nerf its power accordingly), and then create a more random, AND more interesting 4-piece like:

Set(4): Your ranged attacks have a x% chance to cause your Kill Shot to become active outside the 20% execution range. If this buff occurs and is consumed during the normal execution range, Kill Shot consumes no mana.

"True knowledge is knowing the extent of one's own ignorance." -Confucious
Have YOU looked in the mirror lately?

Proud owner of a level 80 Grimtotem Spirit Wolf.
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  • 317. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 02:02:37 PM PDT
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[Druid]:[Balance]
2 piece – Like the idea, seems like a nice bonus even though it doesn't appear to be as strong as our previous 2p bonuses (like t8 = OP)
4 piece – garbage. garbage. garbage. This provides absolutely nothing for sustained DPS and has no use for an actual rotation for a fight longer than 25 seconds. With the CD on each eclipse being 30seconds and both durations being 15seconds, its impossible to benefit from a reduced CD without buff canceling. Even with buff canceling, we would require more addons to track this, something blizzard is not generally fond of. Like many before me has stated, unless Eclipse is getting reworked yet again (which I hope not and would imagine 98%+ of the rest of the moonkin community would agree) this bonus is simply a waste of code.

I really hope you guys change this, and make it something good for a change. I really would like to use a 4pc for a change. I'm getting a little tired of 2p/2p being BiS.
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  • 318. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 02:02:45 PM PDT
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Death Knight: DPS

2 piece
- The tier 8 2p bonus is 8% crit to deathcoil/frost strike. Value depends on spec, but for unholy it sims out to be worth 118DPS at one particular gear level with the 3.2.2 10 second rotation clipped disease unholy build.

- The tier 9 2p bonus is 90%+ uptime on 180 strength, which sims out to be 144DPS. This is roughly 20% better than the 2t8.

- The tier 10 2p bonus is 10% damage to obliterate, scourge strike, and death strike. We don't have the final scourge strike numbers yet, but assuming the new version does roughly the same damage as the old but scales with ArP, this bonus would be inferior to the 2-piece tier 8 bonus for unholy and blood, who don't use their FU strikes very much, and likely a nice upgrade over 2t8 for frost. As 2t9 is an upgrade over 2t8 for everybody, that would hold for 2t9 as well.

If scourge strike actually ends up buffed, unholy DKs may want to use it more in each rotation and that could change for unholy, but blood is very unlikely to want more death strikes.

4 piece

- The tier 8 4p bonus is 20% additional bonus damage per disease on blood, heart, obliterate, and scourge strikes. This has been simmed to be worth 102DPS.
- The tier 9 4p bonus allows blood plague to crit. The 3.2 4t9 was simmed at 648, so this would be worth 324DPS. Definitely a worthwhile upgrade.

- The tier 10 4p bonus grants 3% additional damage for 15s when all runes are on cooldown. Back in beta, the original blade barrier talent was triggered by all runes being on cooldown as well, but was changed to just blood runes as it was difficult to maintain uptime. So we can't assume 100% uptime on this; 50% seems more realistic. So we're looking at 1.5% overall increased damage, assuming a 6500DPS baseline in T10 gear, which equals 97.5DPS. Hmm.

Even at 100% uptime, 4t10 is only worth 195DPS, significantly less than 4t9, and 4t9 scales much better with AE as it's effectively 35% more damage from blood plague. Of course at 100% uptime, nobody would much complain because additional stats from higher ilvl gear would make up for it.

Please consider changing the "runes on cooldown" trigger. Ideally the buff would be triggered by using a signature FU or blood attack, or using both blood runes like blade barrier.

Or even better, change the buff to something more sexy than 3% increased damage, like a lightning overload-style half-damage double-attack on deathcoil, or giving blood strike a chance to drop the player's GCD to 1.0s for 6s. You know, something sexy and cool.

[ Post edited by Slant ]


WOTLK Shaman FAQ: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=79203452
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  • Winterhoof
  • 319. Re: Tier-10 Set Bonuses Feedback   10/08/2009 02:03:01 PM PDT
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[Warrior]:[Fury]
2 piece – [The proc is powerful, but at 2% chance to happen is near worthless. At such low proc chance this will have very low uptime and could often not proc at all during shorter fights, or often proc near the end of longer fights.]
4 piece – [This translates to 4% proc for an extra instant Slam, an ability that we already have a very hard time finding spare GCDs for, especially if we're in charge of keeping Sunder and Demo shout up as well. We're already often forced to miss or overwrite Blood Surge procs, so the set bonus proc would be wasted quite often. Very weak bonus for Fury.]


[Warrior]:[Arms]
2 piece – [Arms has a slightly higher chance to proc this, but still very low. Faces the same problem as Fury spec.]
4 piece – [This translates to 4% chance for an extra Execute. At best this translates to replacing one Slam with an Execute. A small damage increase at a very low proc chance. Mediocre set bonus at best.]


Both set bonuses are very lackluster relative to even previous warrior set bonuses, but especially when compared to other classes' Tier10 bonuses. In general, proc bonuses are not very good because they're unreliable and beyond player control. Many fights demand extra damage at specific moments, not whenever an item decides to proc. Warriors are a class already heavily reliant on procs from talents, items, enchants, so we really don't need more procs to pray for.

Warriors would be much better off with passive increases to our damage. Our rotations are already saturated for both Fury and Arms specs, so giving us extra abilities to fit into our rotations is definitely not what we need. Death Knight set bonuses are a perfect example of what bonuses should look like. Always active, high uptime, procs fully controlled by player. Please consider redesigning these completely.

Thank you

:(){ :|:& };:
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