World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Myth busted! Dev team has shaman!

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Mal'Ganis

160. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 02:16:21 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I wanna know who it is! Kollectiv maybe?

It's safe to say you can cross off everyone that is a known strictly for their PvP skills.

Matuk

< Chaøs >

Boulderfist

162. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 02:16:45 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
You're taking his words far too literally. Tell me, why do you want Reincarnation's CD lowered? To be able to utilize it regularly, correct? The problem is that the developers do not want you to use it regularly because it's a self-res. Soul Stone and Rebirth are different; they require coordination and teamwork.

And if I use Reincarnation out of turn during a boss battle, it could cause problems for the raid, because even with a 10 minute cooldown, I'd only get to use it once per encounter, the same way I can only use Bloodlust once per encounter, due to the 10 minute Sated debuff. Using Reincarnation at the wrong time can mean the difference between a wipe, and a close call.

I'm not going to kill myself on purpose in a raid, because that means DING DING DING REPAIR BILLS.

I get plenty of repair bills without dying on purpose, thank you very much.

[ Post edited by Matuk ]

Totem Racks: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17367981962&sid=1

Flame Shield: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18031196559&postId=193537537825&sid=1

Maculo

Bleeding Hollow

163. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 02:40:05 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

I just got trolled ><

Calling someone else a troll does not necessarily win an argument(never really). Furthermore, if you took his words as anything else other than a true attempt at debate and reason, then I would have to call your actions somewhat foolish. The mage gave his reasons, and stayed civil about it.

If you simply cannot accept another opinion, fine, just say so, but calling it "trolling" is not only rude, but it shows you did not read his arguments. Therefore weakening your own argument.

Sylvanah

< FODA >

Magtheridon

164. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 02:48:29 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

And since this is a computer game, made by programmers, does that mean that all the elite players also have to be professional game-developers, as well, in order to have an opinion?

touché

Caohong

< Wei Imperial Dynasty >

Garona

165. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 02:58:37 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Calling someone else a troll does not necessarily win an argument(never really). Furthermore, if you took his words as anything else other than a true attempt at debate and reason, then I would have to call your actions somewhat foolish. The mage gave his reasons, and stayed civil about it.

If you simply cannot accept another opinion, fine, just say so, but calling it "trolling" is not only rude, but it shows you did not read his arguments. Therefore weakening your own argument.

Alright man, second paragraph of his post. I guess it was rude if he really doesn't know otherwise, but getting hit for 9k because you're not wearing resilience gear against raid geared players and whining is silly. Shaman are built lose at pvp if the fight is between two zero resilience players, if he wants facts and data he can look up the beginning seasons of TBC and Wotlk when there wasn't much resilience, with the funny part being that his paladin got rolled regardless. Also I said earlier that my account is cancelled so there is no rerolling, I'm interested in the changes going on, but I'm not gonna play again until cataclysm.

[ Post edited by Caohong ]

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

166. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 05:28:44 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
The bolded part kind of scares me. It comes across like everyone agrees with each other on how the game is supposed to be handled, and up front that sounds like a good thing. On the other hand, having 10-15 people who all think alike tend to get into ruts. Recurring themes are good as they provide consistency, but if it falls into running in circles, or spinning your tires so to speak, things need to get shaken up.

I didn't say we agree on everything. Far from it. We have lively debates all the time. Different points of view are critical when you have a fan base that numbers in the millions. But it's important that on a higher level everyone buys in to some basic philosophies or we're just going to be working at cross purposes. We have people who say would rather have an elegant fix that doesn't quite fix the problem or designers who would favor a more complicated fix that absolutely fixed the problem. The key is that both agree there is a problem and that we should try to fix it. If someone doesn't think the problem exists, then we need to keep discussing it until we reach a consensus or at least agree to disagree.

When we disagree though, we know how to do so in a professional manner. Being able to disagree with someone without insulting them is a pretty important skill in almost every line of work. Even if you are certain in your heart that someone is wrong, wrong, wrong, you still need to maintain respect for them if you really want to engage in a conversation. I mention it just because it is a skill so poorly mastered by many of the posts on our forums. :(

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

167. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 05:36:50 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
All your examples either have or can have two-way feeback with their subordinates, or there is a chain of command that is two-way all the way down. I would argue that the Blizzard -> Players feedback loop is not like this. I can't ask a question, get an answer, and then ask another question. It's more like a squabble, and the loudest noises get attention. Even then, it's like a mystic decree. That's why Blue Trackers are so popular.

We have plenty of communication with "subordinates" (though Blizzard hierarchy is pretty flat overall). You are talking about the degree to which a few dozen people can carry on an open conversation with a few million people. That's hard. I would rank our attempts at communication pretty high overall though. No, you don't get answers to all your questions from a high-ranking person on our side of the fence, but you pretty much don't ever get that in life. You do get some, and that's the best we can do. I would be surprised if you got a similar level of conversation with say the people that made your computer or your car or who manage your bank account or roast your coffee beans. That's not to say we can't do better. But I think many of you confuse "poor communication" with "didn't answer *my* question."

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Catalept

< Noctis Erus >

Aman'Thul

168. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 05:37:13 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

When we disagree though, we know how to do so in a professional manner. Being able to disagree with someone without insulting them is a pretty important skill in almost every line of work. Even if you are certain in your heart that someone is wrong, wrong, wrong, you still need to maintain respect for them if you really want to engage in a conversation. I mention it just because it is a skill so poorly mastered by many of the posts on our forums. :(

... possibly because there are a decreasing number of places where they can learn it IRL :(

Hint: Stay away from cable news.

[ Post edited by Catalept ]

Vlanaz

Thunderlord

169. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 06:19:39 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
This kind of thing gets asked every few weeks. I haven't responded to one in a long time, so consider this my token response so I don't have to it again for awhile. :)

We have an amazing shaman on the team, arguably one of the best in the world, but it wouldn't matter if we didn't. We hire people who have a fundamental understanding of the classes and whose philosophy is in line with ours. We don't hire to fill a class quota. "Sorry, dude, if you switch mains we're going to have to let you go." I could care less what classes my designers play, as long as they play the game and can put themselves in players' shoes (which they do).

There are plenty of examples in other businesses where people who make the decisions are not necessarily the ones in the trenches. Many famous directors and producers can't act, but that doesn't mean they don't understand acting. Athletic coaches are often former athletes, but that doesn't mean they can still compete with their actual players on the field or court. CEOs set the philosophy of a business. They don't execute all of the trades or make purchases themselves. Generals are not necessarily crack shots any longer. The people in the book industry may not be great writers, but they know what readers want to buy. Great chefs aren't necessarily the people who can eat the most food. They just have to love food. And so on.

The people making the decisions just have to be very knowledgeable of the details and the experience that actual players encounter, which our designers are.

Many times (though not every time) that players post that we aren't familiar with a particular class or spec, what they are really saying is "I have a different vision for this class or spec than Blizzard does," or even "I don't like to be nerfed."

If the shaman isn't kollektiv/douja he's not one of the best.. and the devs don't play alot of classes and don't understand them you can deny that all u want but u know it's true.

Vlanaz

Thunderlord

170. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 06:21:33 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

It's safe to say you can cross off everyone that is a known strictly for their PvP skills.

He said he's one of the best so it has to be based off pvp skill.. what else would it be based off? pve? any random shaman can devote hours apon hours to be in a top pve guild lol. he was in deus vox anyways and got death's demise or w/e that nerd achievement is np

[ Post edited by Vlanaz ]

Gravemind

< Just Wipe It >

Blackrock

171. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 06:33:49 PM PDT

So I can assume you can't/aren't discussing fire nova stun because all discussion on the issue from others/myself is structured in a way that it is complaining about getting nerfed.

How does one query the direction that has been decided which the class is going to take?

/sadface :'(

[ Post edited by Gravemind ]

Sure, I will 'build a bridge'.......then I will live under it.

Swivicus

< of the Manpile >

Mal'Ganis

172. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 06:38:44 PM PDT

The short answer is no. It's pretty unrealistic to believe a cash cow as big as WoW wouldn't have a dev team armed to the teeth with class experts from all over the globe.

The reality is balancing a game as dynamic as WoW with all it's mechanics and intricacies is a massive undertaking. Even the smallest changes can have implications they never considered, and I guarantee the slow turnover rate on response you see is as much confirming that a change won't lead to something they didn't expect as it is making sure it's a valid undertaking to begin with.

Hybrids are as viable as they have ever, ever been. Every hybrid has gone from being pigeonholed healers to versatile classes that can more than fill any role they want. Could things be better - always. I don't have a finish line attitude. They're pretty damn good though.

I recommend taking a break from the festering echo chamber that is the class forums.

Brahmin

< Epitaph >

Shu'halo

175. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 07:05:34 PM PDT

I wish Enhancement did more PvP damage without wolves and didn't have around half as much armor as Elemental. :(

Otherwise I'm pretty satisfyed with Shaman PvP! Enhancement's insta-heals are nice against anything except Plate classes, and Elemental is just generally solid with burst and healing capabilities.

I dunno, maybe I'm just facing bad players, but Shaman PvP really ISN'T as bad as people make it out to be, but buffs could most definetely be applied, especially for Enhancement Shaman v Plate Class.

PvE DPS buffs in general, you know, the usual. Not much to say on PvE I do fine as Elemental, but my guild isn't exactly ultimately geared Super-Class-Players.

Shamans are atleast 7/10 on the little class-o'-meter I have in my brain. I don't think thats too shabby...

Making a Shrunken Head.
1. Make a long incision on a decapitated Enemy's head.
2. Remove skull.
3. Boil the Head.
If you've followed these steps you've commited a heinous crime, I've called 911.

Inahu

Khaz'goroth

176. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 07:13:36 PM PDT

GC:

You hit the nail on the head when it comes to a general (read: not all but most) lack of respect from players, but I'd like to elucidate a little on why, at least in my case, that is.

Respect has to be earned. If you try to force respect, you'll get the other 'r', which we see here, in the form of resentment. It all boils down to this: a huge portion of shamans are upset because we're told or given the implication that we need to show respect for a group of people who haven't shown us why they deserve it.

Raid buff scaling. Itemisation. Internal AND external views of lacklustre PvP performance.

I'm really hoping that I don't get a response of feigned incredulity to this post, I'm not trying to justify the nastiness in some of the previous posts by suggesting "well, you guys brought it on yourselves." I'm willing to show you proper deference, if you guys will stop treating our concerns as if they have no merit.

[ Post edited by Inahu ]

Lightning Helicopter!

Inahu

Khaz'goroth

178. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 07:32:14 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

To the bold. Respect does have to be earned, however even when attempting tobe earned no respect on this planet is a given. That said it is not their job to "respect" everyone or even anyone. Respect is a personal deal and not one that can be paid for.

Furthermore respect is never "owed" which seems to be the chip on alot of peoples shoulders. The very same thign can be said about ret pallies ( mind you my main is one ) when 3.0 hit followed by a slew of nerfs. Rets flocked to the forums screaming "why oh why" or "but YOU said GC".

That is still no excuse to act the way some people do.

I absolutely agree with you, which is why I mentioned in the last snippet that I wasn't defending people being nasty and disrespectful. I will say though, as much as it isn't their job to dish out respect, there is no requirement for me to respect them either - mutual respect, however, serves both our interests and asks very little of each of us.

Lightning Helicopter!

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