World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Myth busted! Dev team has shaman!

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

60. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 09:57:58 AM PDT

This kind of thing gets asked every few weeks. I haven't responded to one in a long time, so consider this my token response so I don't have to it again for awhile. :)

We have an amazing shaman on the team, arguably one of the best in the world, but it wouldn't matter if we didn't. We hire people who have a fundamental understanding of the classes and whose philosophy is in line with ours. We don't hire to fill a class quota. "Sorry, dude, if you switch mains we're going to have to let you go." I could care less what classes my designers play, as long as they play the game and can put themselves in players' shoes (which they do).

There are plenty of examples in other businesses where people who make the decisions are not necessarily the ones in the trenches. Many famous directors and producers can't act, but that doesn't mean they don't understand acting. Athletic coaches are often former athletes, but that doesn't mean they can still compete with their actual players on the field or court. CEOs set the philosophy of a business. They don't execute all of the trades or make purchases themselves. Generals are not necessarily crack shots any longer. The people in the book industry may not be great writers, but they know what readers want to buy. Great chefs aren't necessarily the people who can eat the most food. They just have to love food. And so on.

The people making the decisions just have to be very knowledgeable of the details and the experience that actual players encounter, which our designers are.

Many times (though not every time) that players post that we aren't familiar with a particular class or spec, what they are really saying is "I have a different vision for this class or spec than Blizzard does," or even "I don't like to be nerfed."

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Narmer

< idiocracy >

Alexstrasza

61. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:00:09 AM PDT

wtb wol, wmo, or wws parses of this amazing dude plz

[√] Glory Of Bad Content
[~] Glory Of Worse Content

Zirconium

< Tag Em n Bag Em >

Shattered Halls

62. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:00:56 AM PDT

While I agree, it IS a buff, it is a buff to an area where we were not lacking, nor needed improvement. Imagine if you will, a talent for a healer that said "Your direct healing spells gain an extra 200% effectiveness on fully healed targets" or a talent for a dps class that said "If your next hit kills whatever your attacking, you hit him 20% harder so he dies more" Wouldn't you call that useless? To me, that would be pretty useless. Now, imagine them lowering a cooldown on an ability they might as well call "You get to die again!" among the myriad of problems your class has already. Or picture it this way. Imagine mages or warlocks getting a new rank of frost armor / demon skin after getting Ice armor / demon armor even though the latter are better.

VERY few (notice i did not say no one) can spare talent points to put into improved "You get to die again!" and the loss of that talent probably wouldn't throw off their spec. If the shaman in question was a healer, and had 0 mana left, yes it could kill itself somehow and get 20% of its mana back at the cost of its raid buffs. The problem in assuming they would do this is that resto gear already has a crap ton of mp/5 anyways. So in the time it took them to die and come back, plus considering the buffs they could have had, they could very well be back up to an amount of mana to be able to heal, PLUS still have its raid buffs.

[ Post edited by Zirconium ]

Burstacide

< Ashborne >

Gurubashi

63. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:01:27 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
This kind of thing gets asked every few weeks. I haven't responded to one in a long time, so consider this my token response so I don't have to it again for awhile. :)

We have an amazing shaman on the team, arguably one of the best in the world, but it wouldn't matter if we didn't. We hire people who have a fundamental understanding of the classes and whose philosophy is in line with ours. We don't hire to fill a class quota. "Sorry, dude, if you switch mains we're going to have to let you go." I could care less what classes my designers play, as long as they play the game and can put themselves in players' shoes (which they do).

There are plenty of examples in other businesses where people who make the decisions are not necessarily the ones in the trenches. Many famous directors and producers can't act, but that doesn't mean they don't understand acting. Athletic coaches are often former athletes, but that doesn't mean they can still compete with their actual players on the field or court. CEOs set the philosophy of a business. They don't execute all of the trades or make purchases themselves. Generals are not necessarily crack shots any longer. The people in the book industry may not be great writers, but they know what readers want to buy. Great chefs aren't necessarily the people who can eat the most food. They just have to love food. And so on.

The people making the decisions just have to be very knowledgeable of the details and the experience that actual players encounter, which our designers are.

Many times (though not every time) that players post that we aren't familiar with a particular class or spec, what they are really saying is "I have a different vision for this class or spec than Blizzard does," or even "I don't like to be nerfed."

I would love to see you guys have a comittee of class representitives duking it out for equality and balance lol

Pentt

< Phobia >

Area 52

64. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:02:28 AM PDT

WTB Parse of Blizz raids

"Many Shadow priests think their dps is still unacceptably low, but we don't agree."

Tell that to Ensidia

http://ensidia.com/community/blogs/1062.html

Drakyn

< Apotheosis Now >

Dalaran

66. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:05:09 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
This kind of thing gets asked every few weeks. I haven't responded to one in a long time, so consider this my token response so I don't have to it again for awhile. :)

We have an amazing shaman on the team, arguably one of the best in the world, but it wouldn't matter if we didn't. We hire people who have a fundamental understanding of the classes and whose philosophy is in line with ours. We don't hire to fill a class quota. "Sorry, dude, if you switch mains we're going to have to let you go." I could care less what classes my designers play, as long as they play the game and can put themselves in players' shoes (which they do).

There are plenty of examples in other businesses where people who make the decisions are not necessarily the ones in the trenches. Many famous directors and producers can't act, but that doesn't mean they don't understand acting. Athletic coaches are often former athletes, but that doesn't mean they can still compete with their actual players on the field or court. CEOs set the philosophy of a business. They don't execute all of the trades or make purchases themselves. Generals are not necessarily crack shots any longer. The people in the book industry may not be great writers, but they know what readers want to buy. Great chefs aren't necessarily the people who can eat the most food. They just have to love food. And so on.

The people making the decisions just have to be very knowledgeable of the details and the experience that actual players encounter, which our designers are.

Many times (though not every time) that players post that we aren't familiar with a particular class or spec, what they are really saying is "I have a different vision for this class or spec than Blizzard does," or even "I don't like to be nerfed."

I don't want to sound too mean, but why pick on an easy target like this fairly generic thread (which, as you said, comes up in some form or another from someone fairly frequently and never changes the answer much) when half the shaman class just flamebroiled you for ignorance and logic failure over reincarnation and you still haven't really defended it? Heck, most of us didn't even care about any changes to the ability's cooldown until we saw your post about it.

To all a merry sandwich, and frog bless us, every one.
You can mock my class, you can /spit at my head, but if you tell me to spec resto, consider yourself dead.
REMEMBER MENETHIL HARBOR!

Wound

Trollbane

67. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:07:12 AM PDT

@GC

Nice strong post without dealing with the topic on hand. Nerfs are fine... if they are NOT offset with on a class that is not already in the best of positions.

[ Post edited by Wound ]

Duessah

< Brotherhood of the B… >

Argent Dawn

68. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:10:23 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
The people making the decisions just have to be very knowledgeable of the details and the experience that actual players encounter, which our designers are.

Its this very point that players are trying to refute.

When people say "I don't think Blizzard plays my class" they really mean "I don't think Blizzard is knowledge enough about my class".

[ Post edited by Duessah ]

Fallenchaos

< Dust >

The Scryers

69. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:15:05 AM PDT

Could you then ask this shaman player to talk to the itemization team. Possibly get some items available for emblems for elemental that other specs already have (all of the non-tier, non-totem gear, such as belts, rings, neck pieces) along with craftable items as well. I'm sure spriests and moonkins would enjoy rings/neck pieces that are caster and don't have spirit or mp5 on them.

Also, change the T10 elemental relic, its terrible for elemental as in a standard rotation we don't use flameshock/earthshock/frostshock more than once per 15 seconds (even more so if you have the T9 2p set bonus).

Firestyle

< Liberated >

Azuremyst

70. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:15:59 AM PDT

I don't care just fix my totems so they mean something again. Crap give them a 10 yard range, but make them awesomely powerful or stack with other buffs like they used to ....

Kurae

< Desolation >

Earthen Ring

71. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:16:03 AM PDT

Enhancement is at about where it should be in pve dps wise, within 5% or so of the pure classes, a little closer for a more skilled enhance.

Resto healing is much better then it was. No longer confined to chain heal spam.

Elemental is still in the same place we were. The buffs were nice small steps in the right direction, but honestly we are still lacking in the dps department. We don't scale with raid buffs, we don't really scale with anything. Our itemization is absolutely horrid. I don't want to be at the top of the dps chart above mages, locks hunters and rogues, thats their spot, they deserve it. But when we are falling behind other hybrid classes, there is something that needs to be looked at in the spec/class.

Caohong

< Wei Imperial Dynasty >

Garona

72. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:16:39 AM PDT

Blizz's shaman player = Unbreakable

*runs away*

Avitus

< LEGENDS >

Darrowmere

73. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:17:23 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
This kind of thing gets asked every few weeks. I haven't responded to one in a long time, so consider this my token response so I don't have to it again for awhile. :)

We have an amazing shaman on the team, arguably one of the best in the world, but it wouldn't matter if we didn't. We hire people who have a fundamental understanding of the classes and whose philosophy is in line with ours. We don't hire to fill a class quota. "Sorry, dude, if you switch mains we're going to have to let you go." I could care less what classes my designers play, as long as they play the game and can put themselves in players' shoes (which they do).

There are plenty of examples in other businesses where people who make the decisions are not necessarily the ones in the trenches. Many famous directors and producers can't act, but that doesn't mean they don't understand acting. Athletic coaches are often former athletes, but that doesn't mean they can still compete with their actual players on the field or court. CEOs set the philosophy of a business. They don't execute all of the trades or make purchases themselves. Generals are not necessarily crack shots any longer. The people in the book industry may not be great writers, but they know what readers want to buy. Great chefs aren't necessarily the people who can eat the most food. They just have to love food. And so on.

The people making the decisions just have to be very knowledgeable of the details and the experience that actual players encounter, which our designers are.

Many times (though not every time) that players post that we aren't familiar with a particular class or spec, what they are really saying is "I have a different vision for this class or spec than Blizzard does," or even "I don't like to be nerfed."

Nice Respond CG.

Shockurface

< Stay on Target >

Bloodhoof

75. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:24:33 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
This kind of thing gets asked every few weeks. I haven't responded to one in a long time, so consider this my token response so I don't have to it again for awhile. :)

We have an amazing shaman on the team, arguably one of the best in the world, but it wouldn't matter if we didn't. We hire people who have a fundamental understanding of the classes and whose philosophy is in line with ours. We don't hire to fill a class quota. "Sorry, dude, if you switch mains we're going to have to let you go." I could care less what classes my designers play, as long as they play the game and can put themselves in players' shoes (which they do).

There are plenty of examples in other businesses where people who make the decisions are not necessarily the ones in the trenches. Many famous directors and producers can't act, but that doesn't mean they don't understand acting. Athletic coaches are often former athletes, but that doesn't mean they can still compete with their actual players on the field or court. CEOs set the philosophy of a business. They don't execute all of the trades or make purchases themselves. Generals are not necessarily crack shots any longer. The people in the book industry may not be great writers, but they know what readers want to buy. Great chefs aren't necessarily the people who can eat the most food. They just have to love food. And so on.

The people making the decisions just have to be very knowledgeable of the details and the experience that actual players encounter, which our designers are.

Many times (though not every time) that players post that we aren't familiar with a particular class or spec, what they are really saying is "I have a different vision for this class or spec than Blizzard does," or even "I don't like to be nerfed."

Well this is good to hear if true. Itemization looks like it has kinda gone in better direction for Enhance atleast.

You have to understand GC, even from my side, it did not see like there was anyone there playing a Shaman or atleast did not understand some of the mechanics if they did. It was not that you did not do the changes I expected but some of the changes made no sense at the time.

Also, when you would say things like (I do not have the exact quotes/sources anymore) "I asked an experienced Enhance Shaman that I know." It sounded like you asked someone in your guild or some random other Shaman. It scares you when you hear stuff like that :D

Raganrok

< Halcyon >

Arathor

76. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:28:27 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

I don't want to sound too mean, but why pick on an easy target like this fairly generic thread (which, as you said, comes up in some form or another from someone fairly frequently and never changes the answer much) when half the shaman class just flamebroiled you for ignorance and logic failure over reincarnation and you still haven't really defended it? Heck, most of us didn't even care about any changes to the ability's cooldown until we saw your post about it.

Yea, it's pretty much this GC.

Now, I'm going to grant you that this is probably a point in your argument as to why your posting at all can be a bad thing or can lead to bad things.

However, most of us are eternally grateful when you do post and glad of your community interaction. I personally always try and see things from the devs' point of view.

But still.. when you post something about a potential development fear and then riddle it with unrealisic reasoning about situations that don't actually happen - or can't happen - then the community of said class is going to take issue with it.

Cyloria

Alexstrasza

77. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:32:22 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Enhancement is at about where it should be in pve dps wise, within 5% or so of the pure classes, a little closer for a more skilled enhance.

Resto healing is much better then it was. No longer confined to chain heal spam.

Elemental is still in the same place we were. The buffs were nice small steps in the right direction, but honestly we are still lacking in the dps department. We don't scale with raid buffs, we don't really scale with anything. Our itemization is absolutely horrid. I don't want to be at the top of the dps chart above mages, locks hunters and rogues, thats their spot, they deserve it. But when we are falling behind other hybrid classes, there is something that needs to be looked at in the spec/class.

i wouldn't say they deserve it but i would say I don't mind them being on top...my only problem is the hybrid tax don't seem to get attached to melee hybrid, but it does to caster.

and the thing is we can do pretty good numbers for a hybrid if we can use our fire totems(which i am sure they look at when they decide we are doing good) problem then is they are hard to use...our fire ele. doesn't attack half the time. our magma is an extremely short range...our searing is also relatively short...And quite a few of us can't even use them and have to use TOW.

we do scale poorly but i don't think its cause we don't have int to spell power(and if it is that will be fixed in cata.) i think its cause Crit does relatively nothing for us. Haste does more except Lava being on a strict cooldown takes away some of that to.

Its time that Elemental Shaman are brought for what we can do not what we do for others.

Safehaven

< From The Ashes >

Frostmane

78. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:32:28 AM PDT

How does that shaman feel about shaman pvp?

~~Bruti Alter Eggo...Ego....damn I want waffles now.

Paedon

< The Last Grenadiers >

Kilrogg

79. Re: @Blizz, T/F no Dev plays/has an 80 shaman 10/14/2009 10:32:32 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

This is exactly where I disagree, if you don't play the class in PvE or PvP at a high enough level, you are not going to understand the intricacies of it and the blizzard motto "attention to detail" falls apart.

You only have to look at the patch notes and their history for glaring evidence of this.

And since this is a computer game, made by programmers, does that mean that all the elite players also have to be professional game-developers, as well, in order to have an opinion?

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