every raid teir avoidance is increased, but the bosses never have any form of extra expertise or increase critical strike chance (I know gear right now is balanced around them not getting any more crit)


It would make sense that they would though, they sort of do every level, so why not every raid teir?

Because that would be stupid.

That just sounds like piling crappy mechanics on top of crappy mechanics.

Well.... that would just be Sunwell Radiance by a different name.

Giving bosses increased crit chance would be terrible: you would gear for 540 most of the time, which would be fine. But you might even have had the boss on farm for 3 weeks before suddenly he hits that 0.2% chance and instagibs you for no reason.... unavoidable, completely random tank deaths are not good.

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Q u o t e:
Well.... that would just be Sunwell Radiance by a different name.

Giving bosses increased crit chance would be terrible: you would gear for 540 most of the time, which would be fine. But you might even have had the boss on farm for 3 weeks before suddenly he hits that 0.2% chance and instagibs you for no reason.... unavoidable, completely random tank deaths are not good.

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Obviously if this system were in place, you would gear around it.

However, I don't think crit chance should scale. Besides, they are making uncrittable automatic anyway.

But bosses should get expertise/resilience, and maybe defense.

It prevents certain stats from scaling to crazy levels, while still making it important you actually have them. Imagine that in tier 7 gear you had 30% avoidance against current content, and in tier 10 you had 35% avoidance in what is then current content, but if you wore tier 7 to tier 10 content you'd have like 15% avoidance or less. The avoidance stats were still important, being undergeared means a lot for your avoidance, but avoidance itself doesn't shift much in proper gear and its easier to balance.

The same thing with crit chance and resilience. (tanks would likely have to get a better way to gain crit if this were to happen though) Crit is important, but you'll never get to something like some players can do now where their base crit chance is over 50%. (Can't mages get like an 80% crit chance now in BiS gear?) Crits should be kinda special, not something that happens more often than not.

I say maybe defense, because that affects things that cap. Varying caps would be kinda frustrating, but then again, so long as its by entire raid tiers and not per boss, its not a big deal to gear around the most recent tier. Who really cares if some of your stats are wasted on old content?

It also makes sense from a "lore" perspective. Why don't our opponents get any more skillful as we fight more powerful enemies? Why won't Arthas (or any other Icecrown boss) be a more skillful melee fighter than a Naxx boss? Why aren't they any better at landing their attacks, or defending themselves against attacks? I'd avoid and land attacks at exactly the same rate on both in the same gear, just Arthas will have more health and hit harder.

Bosses with Expertise?

woot! bring on those Druid buffs :)

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Q u o t e:
The same thing with crit chance and resilience. (tanks would likely have to get a better way to gain crit if this were to happen though) Crit is important, but you'll never get to something like some players can do now where their base crit chance is over 50%. (Can't mages get like an 80% crit chance now in BiS gear?) Crits should be kinda special, not something that happens more often than not.

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Fixing excessive gear scaling issues with boss mechanics is not a good idea, really.

This is just Sunwell Radiance except far more complicated for no good reason.

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Q u o t e:
Fixing excessive gear scaling issues with boss mechanics is not a good idea, really.

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I agree, but its a nice band-aid for things when gear scaling gets out of hand.

With feral druids running 70-80% crit and other classes having similar numbers, blizzard has to do something.

Diminishing returns have done a lot to curb avoidance scaling, though.

Now, since blizzard is already introducing gear that is higher than intended for this expansion, with still another raid tier to go, I expect some changes.

would save us more damn avoidance nurfs its rather stupid how were nurfed for previous content because of the new one maybe even do something about avoidance dr if they worked it out well

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Q u o t e:
Why cant I have 3.5 million HP?

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Because you didn't choose 'Druid' at character creation?

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Q u o t e:
That just sounds like piling crappy mechanics on top of crappy mechanics.

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its exactly what mobs do at higher levels anyway

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Q u o t e:


But bosses should get expertise/resilience, and maybe defense.

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all this is really doing is moving the numbers around.

i mean think about it, if they give bosses defense and resilience, they would then need to lower their total health because your DPS would suffer on them and the encounter would all of a sudden become extremly hard.

to counter this they would just lower the bosses total health.


i just dont see the point.

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Q u o t e:


I agree, but its a nice band-aid for things when gear scaling gets out of hand.

With feral druids running 70-80% crit and other classes having similar numbers, blizzard has to do something.

Diminishing returns have done a lot to curb avoidance scaling, though.

Now, since blizzard is already introducing gear that is higher than intended for this expansion, with still another raid tier to go, I expect some changes.

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The thing about DR on stats is that a "best stat" becomes visible, and overstacked, which is boring.

Sunwell radiance could have been done better by giving bosses and some mobs increasing expertise with content. Its not a real complicated issue.

And if they do get better defensive capabilities, then stats such as expertise and hit can be stacked further without trivializing previous content.

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Q u o t e:
Sunwell radiance could have been done better by giving bosses and some mobs increasing expertise with content. Its not a real complicated issue.

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It's complicated enough that you just suggested blizzard should have given feral Druids a relative avoidance buff in Sunwell?

The only problem with using Expertise is the one that Katjia has been alluding to but seems to have not been picked up yet – Druids can't Parry, so increasing Expertise is only half as effective vs Druids. It doesn't necessarily mean its a bad idea, just that its not something you can slap on for a tier because you would have to completely rebalance 1 class to do it.

As a general progression however (i.e. something they could do in Cata) I think it would make sense that bosses get stronger in ways other than just more Health. It would help even out gearing for Hit and Expertise if bosses gained more Avoidance (Dodge, Miss, and Spell Miss) while potentially allowing for the introductory content to be easier on players by having lower than normal caps of both. The real problem with it is that this is rather invisible to players, so there would be no way to know what your Exp or Hit cap was.

I don't think its a totally bad idea, but it isn't one that they can use soon (i.e. Icecrown Citadel) without causing lots of other issues.

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Q u o t e:
That just sounds like piling crappy mechanics on top of crappy mechanics.

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This.

Just sit tight until Cataclysm, when Defense goes away, lowering avoidance by quite a bit. I'm not going to rewrite my whole explanation from the thread about boss expertise last week. It's a bad idea.

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Q u o t e:
Druids can't Parry

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aaargh!
Spoiling my fun :)